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<blockquote data-quote="Irda Ranger" data-source="post: 4049352" data-attributes="member: 1003">More like &quot;Go play GURPS.&quot;Look, there are limits to how flexible a class can be before it becomes a classless, point-buy system disguised as a class.&nbsp; They're supposed to be archetypes.&nbsp; The Fighter class is the heavy armor, toe to toe, &quot;Come get some!&quot; Archetype.&nbsp; You can't dilute that without making the whole class system pointless.And relax, man.&nbsp; They're presenting the most popular Archetypes in the PHB1, but you know that eventually 4E will have just as much splat at 3E did.&nbsp; It's inevitable.&nbsp; There'll be dozens more base classes than anyone could ever possibly need by the time 5E comes around and gives you a new reason to get all self righteous.I'm not sure that &quot;a weapon in one hand, and no armor or shield to speak of&quot; really combines well with &quot;while functioning as a defender.&quot;&nbsp; I mean, &quot;realistically&quot; of course.&nbsp; From a gamist point of view you can do anything you want; but I can't help but think that if I've got a rapier and some dude with chainmail, a broadsword and a large roundshield is bearing down on me, that I've got a chance in hell (assuming equal skill at arms, of course).&nbsp; My best bet is to use my mobility to get the heck out of the way and never, ever let him close with me in a &quot;toe to toe&quot; manner.Personally I think that people are going to see the Rogue and realize that with the proper Feat/Talent choices and/or multi-class dabbling that it meets all reasonable Swashbuckling needs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Irda Ranger, post: 4049352, member: 1003"] More like "Go play GURPS." Look, there are limits to how flexible a class can be before it becomes a classless, point-buy system disguised as a class. They're supposed to be archetypes. The Fighter class is the heavy armor, toe to toe, "Come get some!" Archetype. You can't dilute that without making the whole class system pointless. And relax, man. They're presenting the most popular Archetypes in the PHB1, but you know that eventually 4E will have just as much splat at 3E did. It's inevitable. There'll be dozens more base classes than anyone could ever possibly need by the time 5E comes around and gives you a new reason to get all self righteous. I'm not sure that "a weapon in one hand, and no armor or shield to speak of" really combines well with "while functioning as a defender." I mean, "realistically" of course. From a gamist point of view you can do anything you want; but I can't help but think that if I've got a rapier and some dude with chainmail, a broadsword and a large roundshield is bearing down on me, that I've got a chance in hell (assuming equal skill at arms, of course). My best bet is to use my mobility to get the heck out of the way and never, ever let him close with me in a "toe to toe" manner. Personally I think that people are going to see the Rogue and realize that with the proper Feat/Talent choices and/or multi-class dabbling that it meets all reasonable Swashbuckling needs. [/QUOTE]

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