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Message: <blockquote data-quote="boredgremlin" data-source="post: 2215701" data-attributes="member: 31646">Bows, archers tear a mage up. With improved many shot the fighter gets 7 arrows per attack action, Magic arrows of course. A mages AC sucks, even with magical protections, still lets just say the fighters BAB 20,15,10. Since the lowest usually misses. Thats 21 arrows. Protection from arrows does nothing against magic arrows. Goggles of see invis fix that issue. And bows have as good a range as medium range spells, better actually. Then the fighter could take the distant shot feat, which allows him to fire at any target in sight with no range penalties.     Very few spells in 3.5 dont have saves. If you look they cut the number way down from 3.0 . So if you go with the new rules then  good luck nerfing anyone without a save. Many of those spells still require a touch attack. An archer character will have a very high DEX instead STR. By 30th level probably +10 or better, blinding speed feet so he can be hasted 5 rounds a day +4 dodge ac (ac 24), dodge feat (ac25), at least one ring of epic protection +10 AC=35. A 30th level mage has an attack bonus of +15. All the mages bonuses probably go to INT. So with his +15 the mage has to roll a 20 to hit the ranged fighter with touch attack. The fighters fortitude and refex saves even out more but we allready went through that above, still not exactly a fight ending thing.    Now if the fighter wanted to be real mean he could take a ring of spell turning 10 levels. Spell turning can work to turn a spell partially back. So even a spell heightened to 15 level will affect  the mage more then the fighter. In my opinion losing 10 levels is gonna hurt the mage's spell casting a lot more then losing 5 levels is gonna hurt the fighter. Assuming  the fighter didnt get an epic version made to block the whole thing.     Now maybe that mage has super precognizance, knows the fighter has this ring and wastes a round or two whittling it down with less effective spells or even bounces off spells that might help himself. If the mage spends 1 round doing this the fighter gets  21 arrows free, he probably has improved initiative, is hasted (from blinding speed) and has a +10 dex. For an initiative of +18. Almost garraunteeing he beat the mage in initiative. So now he gets his first 21 arrows, the mage whittles down his spell shield, he gets 21 more arrows, the mage tries to power through whats left of  the spell shield, hurts them himself as well, the fighter stays on his feet and takes 21 more arrows. Thats 63 arrows before the mage has any real chance of killing him. Even epic level mages dont have a shot of surviving that.    And again, the fighter is in regular preperation mode, he goes out like this as a ranged fighter with this gear everyday. Assuming the mage knows an epic fighter is coming to kill him and spent all his spell slots that day memorizing fighter killing spells is a real stretch of the imagination, and he still probably loses.</blockquote>

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