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Fighters vs. Spellcasters (a case for fighters.)
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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6187990" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>5 lb Handy Haversack (spellbooks, food, etc. inside), short bow (she's holding it in the picture), arrows, spell component pouch and magic items (also not pictured). Won't she have a quiver full of easy access wands so she doesn't give up moving to get items out of the Haversack?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sure this was recently discussed in a Pathfinder thread, and the rule in 3.5 was that the clothes you wear don't count to encumbrance. That one didn't make the transition, but it was unclear whether that was deliberate on the part of the designers.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Serious limit? In most cases, no. Limit commonly removed by ignoring encumbrance so the wizard can avoid dealing with the implications of dumping STR? That's more reasonable, I think. And, if they can no longer even lift the gear strapped to their bodies, then (special rules or no), I'd have to consider that a serious impediment, not a magical "rooted to the spot with no other drawbacks" result. The same as I would rule for the warrior with armor now too heavy for him to lift (but if he's no threat, why would I target him first?).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>FORGIVE ME if anything I have posted leads you to actually perceive yourself as butting in. As Manbearcat notes, this shows we have wizards, wizards everywhere. And those Thayvian wizads, and their opposition, are training up new generations of wizards, are they not? That said, FR is a magic rich setting overall, and probably the most over the top for having wizards everywhere.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You did indeed. Looks like he carries a buckler, a haversack and a spell component pouch, at a minimum. How useful is that lantern from inside the haversack? And if you rely on it for light, is dropping it (rather than gently placing it on the ground) a viable option?</p><p></p><p>I'm curious which spells he would prepare for that hypothetical Black Dragon encounter, and what his typical "we're not certain what we will find today" day in, say, the city, wilderness travel and dungeon delving. But arre you SURE he is a real wizard? He has no Shivering Touch or Spectral Hand, no Mirror Image or Invisibility - he looks like he has only the spells he gained as he rose in levels. I note that our Black Dragon would be CR 11 as an adult, so let's Youthenize him down from Mature Adult to be more comparable with the L10 wizard. That brings his saves to +15 F/+11 R/+12 W, his spell resistance to 18 (but his touch AC rises to a 9 <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>He needs to get beyond "heavy load" to really be impaired, though the general preference is to be lightly encumbered. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure can, but it seems less than consistent with knowlege skills never resulting in misleading information. In fairness, you're not the guy screaming "but the rules don't spell it out", and I'd be fine with a game where spellcasters are rare and knowledge of their spells limited or poor. But that cuts both ways - it implies that spellcasters are rarely encountered, which flies in the face of magic items hither thither and yon, with a ready market for both scrolls and spellcasters. You want a haversack? You'll need to be very lucky and find one, or use your precious character resources to take the prerequisite spells and the feat. Your spellbook will probably look a lot like Dandu's example, with maybe a few spells gained through adventuring as well (but not necessarily your own next choices).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course, they also have no need for that knowledge. Not knowing how your plumbing works isnt that big deal when an expert is a phone call away. An army not knowing how magic works is in trouble - unless magic is rare enough they need not consider the possibility, or sufficiently common that they have experts of their own. </p><p></p><p>The typical adventuring encounter is not with the local peasants, so their knowledge of magic isn't all that relevant. If the bandits and the orcs need to deal with magical enemies on a fairly regular basis, I'd expect them to have developed some tactics to deal with it. Just like warfare adapted to firearms, machine guns, tanks, etc. (although it wasn't pretty for those in the throes of such adaptation).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6187990, member: 6681948"] 5 lb Handy Haversack (spellbooks, food, etc. inside), short bow (she's holding it in the picture), arrows, spell component pouch and magic items (also not pictured). Won't she have a quiver full of easy access wands so she doesn't give up moving to get items out of the Haversack? I'm sure this was recently discussed in a Pathfinder thread, and the rule in 3.5 was that the clothes you wear don't count to encumbrance. That one didn't make the transition, but it was unclear whether that was deliberate on the part of the designers. Serious limit? In most cases, no. Limit commonly removed by ignoring encumbrance so the wizard can avoid dealing with the implications of dumping STR? That's more reasonable, I think. And, if they can no longer even lift the gear strapped to their bodies, then (special rules or no), I'd have to consider that a serious impediment, not a magical "rooted to the spot with no other drawbacks" result. The same as I would rule for the warrior with armor now too heavy for him to lift (but if he's no threat, why would I target him first?). FORGIVE ME if anything I have posted leads you to actually perceive yourself as butting in. As Manbearcat notes, this shows we have wizards, wizards everywhere. And those Thayvian wizads, and their opposition, are training up new generations of wizards, are they not? That said, FR is a magic rich setting overall, and probably the most over the top for having wizards everywhere. You did indeed. Looks like he carries a buckler, a haversack and a spell component pouch, at a minimum. How useful is that lantern from inside the haversack? And if you rely on it for light, is dropping it (rather than gently placing it on the ground) a viable option? I'm curious which spells he would prepare for that hypothetical Black Dragon encounter, and what his typical "we're not certain what we will find today" day in, say, the city, wilderness travel and dungeon delving. But arre you SURE he is a real wizard? He has no Shivering Touch or Spectral Hand, no Mirror Image or Invisibility - he looks like he has only the spells he gained as he rose in levels. I note that our Black Dragon would be CR 11 as an adult, so let's Youthenize him down from Mature Adult to be more comparable with the L10 wizard. That brings his saves to +15 F/+11 R/+12 W, his spell resistance to 18 (but his touch AC rises to a 9 :)). He needs to get beyond "heavy load" to really be impaired, though the general preference is to be lightly encumbered. Agreed. Sure can, but it seems less than consistent with knowlege skills never resulting in misleading information. In fairness, you're not the guy screaming "but the rules don't spell it out", and I'd be fine with a game where spellcasters are rare and knowledge of their spells limited or poor. But that cuts both ways - it implies that spellcasters are rarely encountered, which flies in the face of magic items hither thither and yon, with a ready market for both scrolls and spellcasters. You want a haversack? You'll need to be very lucky and find one, or use your precious character resources to take the prerequisite spells and the feat. Your spellbook will probably look a lot like Dandu's example, with maybe a few spells gained through adventuring as well (but not necessarily your own next choices). Of course, they also have no need for that knowledge. Not knowing how your plumbing works isnt that big deal when an expert is a phone call away. An army not knowing how magic works is in trouble - unless magic is rare enough they need not consider the possibility, or sufficiently common that they have experts of their own. The typical adventuring encounter is not with the local peasants, so their knowledge of magic isn't all that relevant. If the bandits and the orcs need to deal with magical enemies on a fairly regular basis, I'd expect them to have developed some tactics to deal with it. Just like warfare adapted to firearms, machine guns, tanks, etc. (although it wasn't pretty for those in the throes of such adaptation). [/QUOTE]
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