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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cyclone_Joker" data-source="post: 6188264" data-attributes="member: 6750006">While I agree that they are necessary, a discussion about the mechanics of it are the only thing that we all have in common here.Also, I question the wisdom of attempting to push human ideas of reason onto intelligent immortal beings made out of the idea of Evil, especially one so hierarchical as to have the Lawful subtype.I'd not mind if the spell was written by someone who wasn't mechanically incompetent. Then again, that objection applies to pretty much all of 3.5 core, so what can you do?I'm not disregarding it, I'm pointing out that it's meaningless, especially considering there's a compulsion involved.Or, let me put it this way: Bob is a highly powerful wizard. He binds a barbed devil, Ted. He does what any wizard going for bound minions would do. He debuffs the ever-loving hell out of it. Curses galore, Lesser geas it can't meet, throw mind-affecting crap on there, too, until it's intolerable. Hell, if they're even remotely psychologically similar to humans(Which they'd need to be for "reasonably" to even be comparable to what a human would), you could probably mundanely screw with the head if you're clever enough. It has no chance to make the roll. It cannot stand being bound and cursed as it is, and you'll kill it permanently if it doesn't give in. Isn't long-term service "reasonable" when the alternative is this?</blockquote>