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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6189583" data-attributes="member: 6681948">Clipped the style descriptions.  I think that’s a fair and reasonably objective presentation.    I think there are styles within these styles.  For example, wargamer style can be a team style, more individual style or even Player vs Player style.  The GM can be a neutral arbiter or an adversarial presenter of challenges (“winning” by racking up PC body counts and TPK’s just as the players “win“ by overcoming the challenges set by the GM an accumulating wealth and/or power, ideally to a level that they win future challenges more easily).   Some wargamers are about power fantasy and glory in their characters crushing their enemies easily, while others would be bored silly by such scenarios as they face no real challenge. I think here we get the “let the chips fall where they may” aspect of wargaming juxtaposed with the player investment (and often GM/campaign investment) a storyteller.   I have more difficulty with indie style, however I read this almost as a cross between the two, where there is a story (or many stories) to be told, but they are dictated by action resolution mechanics.  Are you interpreting “storyteller” as being a single, predestined storyline that all around the table are dedicated to acting out and moving to resolution (I hate to use “railroad as it’s a loaded term), with indie being lots of possible storylines, any one or more of which could resolve in any number of different ways? This also flows into the historical evolution where low level wizards have moved from weak, easily killed characters, but if you survive that challenge, you get rewarded with greater and greater power, to being more balanced, playable characters at lower levels.  The question posed by threads such as this is whether that has been properly effected at the higher levels by removing that reward in a manner commensurate with the reduced risk at lower levels.  The “if you survive, you become very powerful” aspect of the wizard was a wargame mechanism, to be sure.  Sorry I can’t either.  Good question.  I think we’d (my group) fall into a bit of a blend.  Tactical combat, as a wargame aspect, is definitely there.  We’re not huge optimizers, and favour characters with personality over the mechanical best choice, both in character design and execution (“no, I don’t care that the best tactical choice is X – my character would do Y”, as opposed to “how could anyone with a 20 INT ever choose to do something less than 100% optimal”).  We’re a pretty laid back bunch, content to let the story lead us on.  I don’t really know which pool that puts us in, and there’s probably some variance between the individual players. There’s the reverse position espoused here by “the wizard is omnipotent – all challenges fall before him and any interpretation that says otherwise is just wrong”.  The player causes the rocks to fall.  Not sure whether that’s Indie, Storyteller or Wargamer.  I think Wargamer could go either way (“I built my character with these skills and abilities – engage the mechanics so I win” or “My brilliant play of my character should clearly provide my character with a huge advantage, thereby overriding the mechanics so I win”).   Indie (storyteller?) seems more likely to focus on “I built a character with great (poor) social skills – the game should therefore result in success (failure) of my character in this situation”, not in Suzy making an eloquent speech on behalf of Bracka. However, the wargame mindset…well, The wargamer sees only tactics.  The Evil Overlord would not gloat over his prisoners, because the tactically correct move is to execute them.  He will carefully and accurately assess their power, and the possibility they could cause him problems - he will never make an error due to underestimating the heroes.  Screw genre conventions – tactics over all! These are the players who, as the campaign reaches its crescendo, interrupts the GM’s half completed description of the Master Villain twirling his moustache as he begins his monologue with “Enough flavour text – I waste him with my crossbow!”  Their Lawful and Good Heroes liberally apply torches to the groins of anyone they suspect might have valuable intel because “that gives the best bonus on the interrogation charts”, and their personalities change with the wind as they see what approach will be the best tactic in the instant case. Spend a skill point on Cooking skills?   Not unless it helps me get poison into my enemies’ mouths – my character has no purpose in life beyond amassing ever more power! Well, the Omnipotent Wizard always has exactly the spells, feats and items he needs to resolve any hypothetical situation, however unlikely, suggested to him.  So of course, he has a memorized Silent Spell, a chain of Contingences, the Sudden Silent feat and/or a Metamagic Rod in a configuration that it will work – after all, there is no way the Wizard would not be prepared for any and all eventualities. “But wait, as it says so clearly on Page 47 of my character’s Standard Operating Procedures, each morning he washes his Ring of Teleport carefully, then swallows it with a Prune Juice chaser.  Things should start moving any minute now, and then we’ll be able to Teleport on out of this dungeon.”</blockquote>

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