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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6193200" data-attributes="member: 6681948">Clipped the Ranger discussion, but I agree Pathfinder did a lot to give the non-spellcasters (and even the less versatile spellcasters) more parity. Prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate other spell effects, so the Ranger spell would eliminate any argument.I am not the one who decided to use "I need to take a dump" as an excuse to beg off interacting with the Lizardfolk who might perceive something odd about your possessed Lizard fellow. My initial suggestion implied they would not - you dismissed it. Now that the possibility they do have one might cause your plan some challenges, they should not have one. The simple point is that you don't know. And Local Knowledge is an area the wizard seldom focuses on because it is a class skill for others.So the Invisibility spell can make all of these subtle distinctions, but the fact you move your soul to a new container is beyond its capacity? All the above really shows is the array of situations where interpretation of what will, and will not, cause in Invisibility spell to fail is significant.So does a typical horse listen to anyone who might say "Whoa", or does it typically listen to its rider? As you say, a quasi-horselike creature is not a perfect match. It clearly has considerable attunement to a single rider.Yup - it's a Summoning spell, so it's a real, trained riding animal. It does not specify that it can carry the specific rider it was summoned for, otherwise it's limited to 10lb per level. It interacts with the actual weight of the rider, for good or ill.Perhaps he does not. Or perhaps he is attuned enough with his spiritual well-being to know if he possesses the spiritual stamina to weather such a strain on his soul without losing control of the spell. Perhaps (departing from RAW) he feels that lack as he prepares the spell, thus becoming aware that its preparation would be pointless. Or perhaps it is a metagame construct to simulate the wizard knowing there are limits to how much even a powerful Wizard can safely rearrange the very structure of reality. The one thing I'm pretty comfortable it's not is a rotating dial the wizard can check on an ongoing basis. How often does it arise that a wizard is within 300 xp of dropping a level? Why is he not capable of casting a spell with an XP cost if he would lose a level? The metaphysics seem pretty questionable, all things considered, but that's an essential compromise for playability."Does this exist or does it not" seems a pretty scientific question. One that science has, as yet, been unable to answer.It is a world where we continue to have a lot of unknowns as well. So we know all about the universe, other than whether a bath prevents your dog from recognizing you by sense of smell? There we go with those unknowns again. Do I think it's worth a lot of funding to find out? No, I think there may still be other unknowns whose discovery carries greater benefits, such as the root causes and foolproof treatments for a wide array of genetic conditions, or how to duplicate the taste of unhealthy foods with healthy components.Your comment that you think Prestidigitation should be able to render the sense of smell useless to detect its target, but not if the target has the Scent ability, suggests one, since those without the Scent ability lack the ability to detect targets by scent anyway.Is there anything further to be gained by discussion of the Invisibility/Possession, Prestidigitation/Scent or ability to instruct (rather than dismiss) a Phantom Steed issues? It seems like we can agree all three are matters of interpretation, with no definitive answer and a case to be made for either interpretation (at least unless that Mask Scent spell is in 3.5 - my quick search only finds Pathfinder references, and it's in the Advanced layer's Guide, where they started branching out from predecessor material).EITHER:(a) No, I specifically referred to it in my comment, complete with the quote "you must have at least a reliable description of the place to which you are teleporting. If you attempt to teleport with insufficient information (or with misleading information), you disappear and simply reappear in your original location.", which you quoted in your response, without knowing the spell, named right after that quote, existed at all.(b) Yes, and I pointed out that it has limits - it is described as "This spell functions like <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm" target="_blank">teleport</a>, except that there is no range limit and there is no chance you arrive off target. In addition, you need not have seen the destination," after which my first quote comes in. It removes the range limit and the roll to see whether you arrive off target. To complete the detail, it does not allow inter-planar travel.May I suggest (b)?I'm arguing that it is not nearly so useful as often suggested in being a gamechanger because the challenge it overcomes is typically not present until/unless it is available. Neither the wizard nor the warrior generally fails in a challenge because it is not available. When it becomes available, it is used primarily to allow "success" in a challenge which would have been failure for characters of lower level, but because we're now 9th (or 13th) level and meet all the requirements, the group gets to Teleport instead.Every time Teleport becomes a discussion, it is suggested to me that the party (or just the wizard) teleports home to a cozy bed as their spells start to be depleted, teleporting back in the morning to a carefully studied location nearby to resume the adventure, and carrying at least one Teleport scroll in case they don't arrive on target, as even a 1% chance tends to come up when we roll at least twice a day. That's two slots for the Teleport. But the point I made had nothing to do with utility spells. If the wizard must plan for several encounters in the day, he's a lot less cavalier about blasting off all his best attack spells in the first one. If, on the other hand, he can rely on being able to rest and regain all his spells after each encounter, while the rest of the world remains in stasis, he (and other spellcasters, like clerics) seem a lot more powerful.Are there only to be time constraints when we can overcome them through Teleportation?The Cleric can work as a replacement fighter. The higher level we get, the more potent spells are needed to cover the BAB spread and the benefits the fighter gets from feats that don't use up spell slots. Can the cleric duplicate the fighter? Sure - he has spells to make him a potent melee combatant. But his spells, like the wizard's, run out. And each spell he uses to match the fighter in his own field is not available to be used for things only the cleric could do. In our games, the cleric often buffs the fighter first, because he plans on hanging back, not spending every round in melee combat. That's traditionally worked pretty well.</blockquote>

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