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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6195845" data-attributes="member: 17106">[MENTION=221]Wicht[/MENTION]Yes, I think comparing evocation and fighters is a good analogy. It's largely the old question of a bird in hand versus two in a bush. Taking the direct damage route is definitely a bird in hand.I'm aware of that.I'm aware of that too. I have the latter bookmarked. I sometimes refer to it when making NPCs or point wizard players to it.But you (pl) are conflating theory with practice. There are a panoply of campaign specific variables by which the utility of any character choice can be altered. The distinction between charop board theory and system mastery is much the same as the distinction between biology and medicine. The applied side is messy. The conclusions of the research side, no matter how valid in their own right, often don't hold.For example, if you read charop guides, you'd conclude that many of the summoning spells are quite effective. However, the summoning lists are balanced according to certain expectations (such as a standard array and default wealth levels, CR-based encounters). If you don't abide by those, the effectiveness of summoned creatures stays the same, but their comparative effectiveness relative to other actors in the game world varies wildly.Since I'm generally going for a high-fantasy, heroic feel, I'll generally be DMing for characters with a modifier total around twice what you'd get from the standard array, treasure at least triple the DMG wealth table number (and often much more), and opponents that are generally off the table of what's considered an appropriate CR (all of which are relatively moderate compared with most of the DMs I've played with, and with some of the stuff you'll see tossed around on those charop boards). Summoning spells are pretty mediocre in my games. Treantmonk gave Summon Monster III a double fist pump smiley, and I don't know if it's even worth the spell slot. Fireball is definitely better in a high-powered game, regardless of the "orthodox" view on the subject.Conversely, if you went for a real gritty feel and rolled straight 3d6 characters with no magic items, those summoned monsters would look pretty powerful, as would spellcasters in general. All of which makes perfect sense: the more special your PCs are, the less special magic is. The less special they are, the more amazing (or overpowered, if you like) magic looks.Similar variables apply to any number of other choices. The charop guides are interesting to read and can be useful, but they won't actually lead to creating the most effective character in most games.</blockquote>

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