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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6197135" data-attributes="member: 42582">Well, this is why 4e has its DC-by-level charts.Conversely, a system which (i) wants challenges with epic levels of difficulty, but (ii) has DC charts which permit even non-epic PCs, built in accordance with the PC build rules, to easily meet the highest DCs, is an incoherent system. My understanding is that the 3E Diplomacy rules suffer from this problem.Whether or not that is correct about that particular mechanical subsytem, a more general point can be made: it may well be true that to make a system work which does not have epic DCs on its charts, but permits PCs to accrue epic abilities, may well require GM force at multiple points, from handwaving DCs to handwaving the consequences of skill checks. But if that's the best that can be said for GM force, it's not much. Because this is simply GM force acting as an ad hoc correction for basic flaws in system design (namely, the DC chart is out-of-whack with the PC build rules). (In my personal view this is not the best that can be said for GM force. Call of Cthulhu is the best that can be said.)</blockquote>