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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6197340" data-attributes="member: 6696971">There may be some different definitions but I'm not sure if that gets to the heart of it. And I don't think that "It sound to me like you think consequences for PC actions should always come from within the mechanics, not from within the storyline" is entirely accurate. Let me try to unpack.The kind of protagonism that pemeton is mandating is basically thus:Character protagonism (the character(s) being the central lynchpin to the unfolding fiction) as a proxy of player protagonism which is a 1st order effect of the confluence of (i) PC build choices, (ii) player decisions, (iii) player fiat (GM saying "yes" to a player proposal...or, if you'd like "player force") or mechanical resolution ("rolling the dice" to see if the player gets to impose their will on the fiction and have the post resolution fictional positioning represent their vision). Note that none of i - iii encompasses protagonism by way of GM-fiat/force (rulings). Further, the impetus of "fiction first" as the guiding influence for player decision-making is key here. We aren't resolving via mechanics only. We are making note of the fictional positioning prior to PC build resource deployment meeting action resolution mechanics and then making note of the evolution afterward. I don't think our games would be utterly indistinguishable from one another. For instance, there would be considerable overlap in genre tropes and GMing techniques. However, there would be some very specific table dynamics (and attendant play) that would create a total play experience that would yield some "lost in translation" moments. Hence, we seem to struggle so mightily for clarity in these sorts of threads. Issues such as "genre logic" trumping "realism/process simulation" is one. Another would be the continuum of player <-> GM authorial control/means.</blockquote>

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