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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Fighters vs. Spellcasters (a case for fighters.)
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6199036" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I share your curiosity.</p><p></p><p>D&D wizards (with the exceptions of 4e) basically have a spell selection with levels and parameters set by Gygax and Arneson. Those levels and parameters are not set by an external genre constraints. There is no literary tradition independent of D&D, except perhaps Dr Strange, in which wizards use fireball and lightning bolt and magic missile and fly and teleport and do all the other things that D&D wizards do.</p><p></p><p>You could change all those parameters and still have a game that was as good, or better, at emulating Tokien, or Conan, or Arthurian legends, or even The Dying Earth.</p><p></p><p>I've read the whole of REH Conan. The wizards in Concan play nothing like D&D wizards. They do not use evocation. They don't use teleport. They don't generally have access to standard action casting. They are highly vulnerable to being killed by a single weapon strike.</p><p></p><p>They use Calling (in 3E terminoloy). They open gates between worlds and bargain with entities. They don't summon simulacra of creatures in large-ish numbers for a minute or so to test for traps, open doors and take a few hits.</p><p></p><p>So are we in agreement, then, that if you wanted to get a S&S feel in you game you'd need to do more than simply play a fighter - you'd want mechanics that give fighters a certain protagonistic heft, reative to wizards, within the system?</p><p></p><p></p><p>My point about length and editions played is that, to be frank, I don't see where one poster who started playing with 2nd ed and then transitioned to 3rd ed, and from his past posting history has stated that he has very minimal exposure to non-d20 RPGing, is in a position to tell me what is or isn't the norm, over the course of the game's history, in D&D play; and on what basis he gets to tell me that my play is aberrant or a departure from the game's norms.</p><p></p><p>The style of game that I play I developed from an AD&D rulebook and a Dragon magazine article published before Ahnehnois was born.</p><p></p><p>Agreed. The contrast with smaller games like BW, HW/Q, The Dying Earth etc; and the contrast even with 4e; is pretty marked.</p><p></p><p>I understand it. I just don't particularly care for it in my own play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6199036, member: 42582"] I share your curiosity. D&D wizards (with the exceptions of 4e) basically have a spell selection with levels and parameters set by Gygax and Arneson. Those levels and parameters are not set by an external genre constraints. There is no literary tradition independent of D&D, except perhaps Dr Strange, in which wizards use fireball and lightning bolt and magic missile and fly and teleport and do all the other things that D&D wizards do. You could change all those parameters and still have a game that was as good, or better, at emulating Tokien, or Conan, or Arthurian legends, or even The Dying Earth. I've read the whole of REH Conan. The wizards in Concan play nothing like D&D wizards. They do not use evocation. They don't use teleport. They don't generally have access to standard action casting. They are highly vulnerable to being killed by a single weapon strike. They use Calling (in 3E terminoloy). They open gates between worlds and bargain with entities. They don't summon simulacra of creatures in large-ish numbers for a minute or so to test for traps, open doors and take a few hits. So are we in agreement, then, that if you wanted to get a S&S feel in you game you'd need to do more than simply play a fighter - you'd want mechanics that give fighters a certain protagonistic heft, reative to wizards, within the system? My point about length and editions played is that, to be frank, I don't see where one poster who started playing with 2nd ed and then transitioned to 3rd ed, and from his past posting history has stated that he has very minimal exposure to non-d20 RPGing, is in a position to tell me what is or isn't the norm, over the course of the game's history, in D&D play; and on what basis he gets to tell me that my play is aberrant or a departure from the game's norms. The style of game that I play I developed from an AD&D rulebook and a Dragon magazine article published before Ahnehnois was born. Agreed. The contrast with smaller games like BW, HW/Q, The Dying Earth etc; and the contrast even with 4e; is pretty marked. I understand it. I just don't particularly care for it in my own play. [/QUOTE]
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