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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 6199177" data-attributes="member: 29398">Now here's a conceit that just plain bugs me, that PCs are somehow vastly better than the norm just because they're PCs.  Slightly better, or having the chance to be slightly better (e.g. roll stats on 4d6 or even 5d6 instead of 3d6) I can see, but beyond that a boy straight off the farm who has taught himself how to use a sword should be just as playable-as-PC as a nobleman's knightly son; where both mechanically are 1st-level Fighters.It's very much a 4e thing that PCs are already heroes by the time they start their role-played career.  It's also one of the biggest flaws in that system, that one can't by RAW play one's character up from nothing...unless they've added something to the design that I'm unaware of that allows for this.I suspect history in the end will say *not* enough people wanted it, or at least not in the form presented, leading to PF's rise and 5e's development.Balance, I'm afraid, cannot be forced by design; the most unbalancing thing of all is that some people are simply better players than others, and while perfect balance can probably be achieved by designing for the lowest common denominator (i.e. removing player ability entirely from the equation) that'd end up as a pretty awful game.  Fortunately no edition of D&D has yet done this.Lan-"don't get me wrong, I don't like 3e/PF either"-efan</blockquote>