Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6200507" data-attributes="member: 22779">I'd also point out N'raac, that your characterization that "Players must always have a chance to succeed" is completely your own fabrication.  No one is saying that just because the player tries something he has to succeed.Heck, with the chamberlain example, if I use diplomacy and roll very low, then I, as the player, have absolutely no reason to complain.  I know what the mechanics say and I have no room to complain here.Where I do draw the line though is that the DM, through fiat, simply declares that some action, which is perfectly reasonable, automatically fails and manipulates the game to ensure that's true.  The Chamberlain sticks his fingers in his ears (completely immersion breaking since such an action would be very much out of character for the Chamberlain), runs away from the PC's, so they cannot use their skills (again, completely out of character and only chosen to artificially inflate the DC of the check) and so on.If you are going to use the game, is it too much for players to ask that the mechanics actually be used?  You, the DM, agreed with your players that you were going to play game X.  Everyone at the table is familiar with the mechanics of game X.  The only reason that you're playing silly buggers with the mechanics is because of some pre-defined outcome that you the DM have decided upon.There are a bajillion games out there that allow the DM to do this.  Most rules light games allow this explicitly.  But, if I'm playing a rules heavy game, why am I now a bad player for insisting that we actually use the rules in the book?Again, we're not talking about strawmen examples of convincing the Pope that he's an athiest.  We're talking about bog standard examples that are actually illustrated in the Player's Handbook.  I mean, if I cannot reasonably expect to be able to do the specific things elucidated in the rules, what can I reasonably expect at any time?</blockquote>

Verification