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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6201365" data-attributes="member: 22779">If I'm in a situation where I cannot succeed, even on a 20, there's something seriously wrong with the game that no amount of DM force is going to correct.&nbsp; Again, we're not talking about bizarre corner case examples.&nbsp; We're talking about a standard example that's actually elucidated IN THE PLAYER'S HANDBOOK.&nbsp; Trying to convince the chamberlain to let you see the king is right there in the PHB as a perfectly reasonable use of Diplomacy.There's going to be some pretty strange things going on if the DC for this check is 21+the diplomacy bonus of the PC's.And, as far as reading the rules goes, I've already shown you that you are flat out wrong here.&nbsp; It does not take 1 minute to make a Diplomacy check.&nbsp; Diplomacy checks can be made in 6 seconds at a -10 to the check.&nbsp; The additional time requirement does not apply to the Hurried Check.&nbsp; That's why the rules are written that way.&nbsp; The rules do not allow for the DM to extend the time requirement for a Hurried Check.&nbsp; Which brings us back full circle to DM's Force.&nbsp; Granted, Rule 0 certainly grants the DM authority to change the rules and he is within his rights to do so.&nbsp; But, again, it's not a bad player for expecting the rules agreed upon to be actually used in the game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6201365, member: 22779"] If I'm in a situation where I cannot succeed, even on a 20, there's something seriously wrong with the game that no amount of DM force is going to correct. Again, we're not talking about bizarre corner case examples. We're talking about a standard example that's actually elucidated IN THE PLAYER'S HANDBOOK. Trying to convince the chamberlain to let you see the king is right there in the PHB as a perfectly reasonable use of Diplomacy. There's going to be some pretty strange things going on if the DC for this check is 21+the diplomacy bonus of the PC's. And, as far as reading the rules goes, I've already shown you that you are flat out wrong here. It does not take 1 minute to make a Diplomacy check. Diplomacy checks can be made in 6 seconds at a -10 to the check. The additional time requirement does not apply to the Hurried Check. That's why the rules are written that way. The rules do not allow for the DM to extend the time requirement for a Hurried Check. Which brings us back full circle to DM's Force. Granted, Rule 0 certainly grants the DM authority to change the rules and he is within his rights to do so. But, again, it's not a bad player for expecting the rules agreed upon to be actually used in the game. [/QUOTE]

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