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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6201582" data-attributes="member: 6696971">This is just incorrect (and its got a lot of company in that post).  You're working considerably hard at this but I swear, as the word count is increasing, the accuracy of the assessment of the differences in the two playstyles in total, and in the component parts, is decreasing.  There is so much going on in each and every post to achieve any clarity.  Compounding errors in understanding is the fact that there is far too much incorrect extrapolation of fundamental issues inherent in the analysis, or a conflation of multiple, incorrect (or A Bridge [WAY] Too Far) extrapolations or reductions to the point that all meaning is lost.We need to break out component parts and examine them.  Building an edifice on a wobbly foundation dooms the whole project.  Simple things like:- DMG information (such as market price of a ritual/magic item) as metagame information for GMs to create functional/balanced/of-level challenges versus information for GMs to world-build.- Objective DCs that connote a living, breathing world to satisfy immersion/sandbox requirements versus subjective DCs to satisfy functional scene-based play where the GM is expected to frame the PCs directly into of-level, thematically relevant action/conflict.Just those two differences alone bring about an extremely different playstyle/GMing orientation and subsequent table experience.  This follows from "Rulings Not Rules" versus "Say Yes or Roll the Dice."With the above in mind and with respect to the quoted bit at the top, would it be helpful if I posted an play example of how the above scene would manifest in 4e or Dungeon World or 13th Age (you pick) and you can take a look, read my analysis/breakout, reorient your thoughts accordingly, and then post commentary?  Given your clearly conveyed preferences, I will say, that I suspect that you will not like the playstyle dynamics that it engenders.  However, I will also say that it is unfortunate because in reading your posts, I get a sense that you would likely be a very good GM for any of those systems.   Let me know and I'll put the effort in to create a play example of "The Obstinate Chamberlain" scene in one of those 3 systems.</blockquote>

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