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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dandu" data-source="post: 6202738" data-attributes="member: 85158">Wait. Your solution isn't to admit that removing the HD limit is bad, it is to say that it can't be done because the wizard does not have a high enough knowledge check?There's a tiny problem with your approach: getting a huge knowledge check is something a wizard can very easily do.Level 15 wizard. 18 ranks in K. Arcana. Let's say a +7 Int modifier. We're at a +25 modifier so far. Moment of Prescience can give up to  a +25 bonus with a CL of 25 - not easy, but doable with enough boosts, especially if you're a Red Wizard. We're at +50 now. Get <a href="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a" target="_blank">Guidance of the Avatar</a> cast on you for a +20 somehow - use Limited Wish to mimic the effect as it is within the power level of Limited Wish. We're at +70.What's the DC to know about an Epic Dragon?The best alternatives to saying that the PCs don't know is to either not have epic monsters, or just conclude that the PAO example text is flawed. It would hardly be the first WotC example to not follow the rules - anyone remember Abjurant Champion and Mage Armor?They shouldn't, which is the argument for enforcing the Polymorph HD limit.This is your principal of good spell design. It is not a principal that the D&D designers expressed or have followed. If that were true, you would not be able to use Lesser Planar Binding to bind a Nightmare and gain access to two (count 'em, two) 9th level SLAs.Agreed. Tremendously.</blockquote>

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