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Fighters vs. Spellcasters (a case for fighters.)
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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 6205314" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>Just checking the SRD really quick turned these up:</p><p></p><p>It looks like you mis-remembered "battle -10"; that's the DC to actually hear a battle. If you rule that the Fighter is distracted in combat, then he'll take, effectively, a -5 on his check. So, that's 5 better than what you had in mind (raising his chance from 5% to 30%). Let's continue:</p><p></p><p>Here's what I found on Verbal Components:</p><p></p><p>So, again, it looks like whispering isn't an option. Listen DC to hear people talking? DC 0 (as noted above). It notes that the Fighter won't know what the Wizard is saying unless he hits DC 10, but if he's just trying to hear the creature, then it's going to be significantly easier (DC 0). So, that lowers you down quite significantly, (by 25), so the Fighter is going to hear you, now, as long as he's within, say, 100 feet.</p><p></p><p>Oh, so he's good, then.</p><p></p><p>This is the math I'm referencing, by the way.</p><p></p><p>Now, pinpointing the Wizard will be hard (we'd need to consult the invisibility rules: "A Listen check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible creature’s location.").</p><p></p><p>And, well, let's at least try to use the rules. I'll let you do the math, since you can determine if the Fighter is "distracted" or not. But, if you use your "+10 to Listen Fighter" and your "50 foot away Invisible Wizard", then the Fighter needs to hit a natural 15 to pinpoint his exact location (natural 20 if you determine that he's sufficiently distracted from finding this Wizard).</p><p></p><p>If, however, he's not distracted, he can at least tell where the Wizard is to move closer ("A character can make a Listen check for this purpose as a free action each round. A Listen check result at least equal to the invisible creature’s Move Silently check result reveals its presence. A successful check lets a character hear an invisible creature “over there somewhere.”"), thus lowering the Listen DC by 1 per 10 feet the Fighter closes.</p><p></p><p>Again, this isn't to say that I don't think there are issues of balance in the game, and that the Wizard would likely lose to the Fighter in a fight. But, man, your references were kinda off. I just feel if you're going to get all indignant and do the maths, you should at least do them mostly right. For all I know, I missed stuff; I haven't really DM'd 3.X in years; then again, I'm not getting all "shirty" about it <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p> </p><p>Or, seemingly, in the best way for the casters, as you may have accidentally done, above? As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 6205314, member: 6668292"] Just checking the SRD really quick turned these up: It looks like you mis-remembered "battle -10"; that's the DC to actually hear a battle. If you rule that the Fighter is distracted in combat, then he'll take, effectively, a -5 on his check. So, that's 5 better than what you had in mind (raising his chance from 5% to 30%). Let's continue: Here's what I found on Verbal Components: So, again, it looks like whispering isn't an option. Listen DC to hear people talking? DC 0 (as noted above). It notes that the Fighter won't know what the Wizard is saying unless he hits DC 10, but if he's just trying to hear the creature, then it's going to be significantly easier (DC 0). So, that lowers you down quite significantly, (by 25), so the Fighter is going to hear you, now, as long as he's within, say, 100 feet. Oh, so he's good, then. This is the math I'm referencing, by the way. Now, pinpointing the Wizard will be hard (we'd need to consult the invisibility rules: "A Listen check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible creature’s location."). And, well, let's at least try to use the rules. I'll let you do the math, since you can determine if the Fighter is "distracted" or not. But, if you use your "+10 to Listen Fighter" and your "50 foot away Invisible Wizard", then the Fighter needs to hit a natural 15 to pinpoint his exact location (natural 20 if you determine that he's sufficiently distracted from finding this Wizard). If, however, he's not distracted, he can at least tell where the Wizard is to move closer ("A character can make a Listen check for this purpose as a free action each round. A Listen check result at least equal to the invisible creature’s Move Silently check result reveals its presence. A successful check lets a character hear an invisible creature “over there somewhere.”"), thus lowering the Listen DC by 1 per 10 feet the Fighter closes. Again, this isn't to say that I don't think there are issues of balance in the game, and that the Wizard would likely lose to the Fighter in a fight. But, man, your references were kinda off. I just feel if you're going to get all indignant and do the maths, you should at least do them mostly right. For all I know, I missed stuff; I haven't really DM'd 3.X in years; then again, I'm not getting all "shirty" about it ;) Or, seemingly, in the best way for the casters, as you may have accidentally done, above? As always, play what you like :) [/QUOTE]
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