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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6205408" data-attributes="member: 6696971">An Obstinate Chamberlain, a Forlorn King, and 3 Dragon-slaying PCs walk onto a porticoAlright, I'll do my 3.x DMG analysis in the coming days.  I'll also break down this conflict resolution in the coming days (with respect to mechanics/techniques at work here and the differences between this and the other creative agendas/playstyles discussed in this thread).  I don't have time to do either analysis tonight so I'll just get the play-post of the chamberlain/king scene scribed.Of note:- Level 14, complexity 2 social skill challenge (6 success versus 3 failures - 5 moderate <25> and 1 hard <29>DC)- Dragonborn Paladin Bahamut's Templar that leveraged (i) Bahamut's Voice (You channel the divine might of the Platinum Dragon's voice; + 5 Diplomacy and Intimidate until end of encounter, you speak Supernal and everyone understands you), (ii) and Platinum Wings (mostly for fictional positioning); divine platinum wings spring from your back and carry you aloft (think Archangel of the X-Men).- Dwarven Ranger Wyrm-slayer (Thorin Oakenshield hat tip) who used a + 2 bonus to Dragon Knowledge to buff a Nature check and used the thematic content of his Encounter Attack power (Grounding Attack) along with Dragon Slayer's Action (reroll attack vs dragons) in the Nested Combat Skill Challenge.- Halfing Scoundrel (Bilbo hat tip) who used Resourceful Action (Action point for + 5 bonus) and Problem-Solver (Immediate Interrupt for ally to reroll a skill roll with a + 2 bonus)- The entirety of the Skill Challenge will be to get to and convince the king to act or sponsor/deputize them, or grant them resources/assets/hirelings in their effort to hunt and defeat the dragon that is either threatening to usurp his kingdom or already has it hostage. The obstinate chamberlain will be merely a complication as the stakes aren't high enough with a challenge itself being to "get past him to the king."Ok, so we threw together a general thematic baseline to focus the scene.  Pretty much everything was improv (including the Nested Complexity 1, Combat Skill Challenge mid-way through).  I frame them directly into the scene, put down 2 dice for markers (one d6 at 6 for successes and another d6 at 3 for failures) and use flash-cards as visual props to convey scene distinctions/tags/aspects for the players to interact with/riff off of.  They are just there as visceral reminders for the players.  They included at the start:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Huge, stone balcony porticoI can see the entire city from way up here!Why so may guards? (wasn't sure what this was about but I wanted it there as a scene element)Hanging, heavy tapestry with kingdom's sigilVast, wooden long-tableNervous, pacing chamberlainThe players are escorted through large, open double doors into the chambelain's pacing presence.  He immediately protests vociferously to the contingent of guards that let them in and begins berating everyone involved, including the PCs, shooing them away.  We're Paladin, Ranger, Rogue for this (I let the players decide).  The demonstrative chamberlain approaches and...(1:0) Intimidate - The Dragonborn Paladin draws upon the power of his god, Bahamut (Daily Prayer of  Bahamut's Voice and Initimdate):  "Do we look the part of petulant nobles or squabbling landowners.  We are here on a divine quest.  The platinum dragon has an interest in this kingdom's liberation...and he will be heard."The chamberlain, now looking the part of awed, afraid, and dreadfully anxious attempts a mumbling, incoherent response while looking over his shoulder out toward the open balcony and then back around the room.  His nervous eyes meet the halfling Rogue momentarily.  "I'm chilled.  Lets speak inside..." he says.Insight Support Action (secondary skill) - The Rogue wants to know why he is so nervous and the player voices that he believes that they may have interrupted something that they probably aren't meant to see (this is a player cue).  He passes the Easy DC of Insight and passes a+ 2 to the Ranger.  He wants to know who and where he looks as he moves toward them trying to usher them out of the room.  I tell him that he subtley nods to a ranking guard and his eyes pass over something that is covered, which is slightly obscured by a pillar.  The Rogue issues an overt nod to the Ranger who is nearest the object.The chamberlain looks back at the stalling Ranger who is making his way over to the covered object.  The chamberlain moves in hastily, beginning to protest, saying "No, no, don't touch that, no…guards…do something”...(2:0) Athletics - A pair of guards move to intercept the Ranger but a successful Athletics (and the drop on them with the + 2 from the Rogue) yields another success.  He gets there first and pulls the cover off.  I ask the player "whats there?" (more on this later in my analysis as this is a common feature of my games and in many Indie games).  The player tells me that a muffled cry greets him as a swaddled babe laying in a cage on a bed of riches is brought into view.  I scrawl this on a flashcard and add it to the scene distinctions. The chamberlain blanches in horror.  Cue the lookout horn.  The ranking member of the guard announces the coming of a 3 drake contingent as they land on the edge of the portico, gravelly voice of the fire drake greeting the chamberlain triumphantly.  This wasn't expected, we didn't really have the combat stats or everything worked out for the characters and I didn't want to treat this as a combat anyway; not the tool for the job.  The drakes should be a complete walk-over for the the PCs.  All I wanted to do here was to set the stakes of the chamberlain now being in mortal danger.  So I nest a mini-skill challenge here; a complexity 1 skill challenge (4:3 with 4 medium DCs) using DMG2's guidance for these sorts of combat skill challenges and using p42 off the cuff for the Ranger's encounter power attack.  I could have run this quickly using of-level monster math; 2 minion (soldier’s MBAs and marks as riders) drakes and 1 standard controller with a fire aura 2 that can manifest on command, and fire breath.  I might have if the characters were fully built.  However, I felt the nested combat Skill Challenge, complexity 1, for 1 success or 1 failure to the greater skill challenge better served the effort (because there wouldn't have been any real threat to the PCs...its just greater skill challenge relevant stakes).After a moment of outrage by the lead drake (a fire-breather), an ominous threat toward the chamberlain's belligerence, the beast snarls, snorts and unleashes a gout of flame at the chamberlain.  Shocked guards look on but Captain America Paladin does not:3:0 – Successful nested skill challenge combat.  The heroes mettle is tested and on full display, trust is earned and the chamberlain is saved.  As the drake begins to leave, the burning hatred in his eyes is palpable.  He spits a curse and a promise that the whole city will burn in an ancient tongue that only the Rogue knows.4:0 Bluff - As the drake is preparing to tests its torn wings for flight, the Rogue saunters over and picks up one of its dislodged scales from the floor.  He pulls a (useless) scroll from his belt and in the same ancient tongue, he threatens the drake with a powerful geas ritual of nslavement should the drake play a part in any retribution against the people of the city.  He spends an Action Point and uses Resourceful Action (+ 5 due to roll), ensuring success.As a rattled drake flies off (poorly), an equally rattled chamberlain beseeches a guard contingent to bring the king.  As they reach the door, a tired, forlorn, mentally beaten king (added to scene distinction flashcards) actually ambles in simultaneously, as several guards attempt to corral him or protect him from whatever caused the crazy racket that resonated through the castle walls.  The king takes account of the still-present tribute, the bloody mess of the portico and the battered drake flying off toward a "Lonely Mountain" and says "What have you done?  You've doomed us all."5:0 Nature (with the dragon knowledge + 2) - The Ranger incredulously condescends (tactfully) to the king, assertively describing the ecology and behavior of the Red Dragon...that it dominates everything in its region until there is nothing left to dominate...at that point it will grow tired and malicious...torturing or devouring its prey once the tribute runs out.  This was the Hard DC of the bunch and actually would have failed but the Rogue uses Problem Solver encounter Power to give the Ranger a reroll with another + 2.  The Rogue piles on by comparing the Red Dragon in behavior to a demon, making a comparison to a demonic overlord who would just as soon pluck your legs from your body to savor the scream as it would put you to work. The King picks up the baby, cradles it and says meekly "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one (Star Trek dorks galore at our table)."6:0 Diplomacy – As the chamberlain thanks the Paladin for saving his life (+ 2 and + 5 from Bahamut’s Voice), “I understand the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few… but this (pointing at the tribute) madness cannot be allowed to continue.  The Platinum Dragon gave to me a dream of this place.  It is manifest destiny that we have come.  Join our cause and let us rid your people of this enslavement and you of this ignoble burden.”  And the king replied with "For the sake of all the people in my kingdom...I pray your god has not led us to ruin.”--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Flawless Victory of both the greater Skill Challenge and the Nested One.  Not particularly common but it happens from time to time (and these guys had some heavy resources to bring to bear for this Skill Challenge).  The players would have told me what they wanted and we would have sorted out some fitting resource/asset; possibly a 1-use thematic item that gave them an encounter power for the BBEG fight (perhaps priests or archers or something)...maybe a companion character...or maybe an actual item or an alternate advancement reward, boon or blessing.Alright, I'm done for the night.  We pondered running it again with different characters next time we meet up.  Maybe, maybe not.  If we do, it will turn out very different.  I'll write up a mechanical and technique analysis at some point this week and break out what this would look with process/causal logic over genre logic, task resolution instead of conflict resolution (with finality of conflict determined by GM judgement rather than mechanics).  I may try to look at this from a "Wargamer" perspective but to be honest with you, its going to be difficult.  Mostly a "Wargamer" table is mostly concerned about cost/benefit analysis and defeating challenges utterly and efficiently...specifically without regard for the fictional positioning...most times leading to utterly incoherent genre emulation/thematics and silly (but terribly fun!) rompish escapades.</blockquote>

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