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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6205967" data-attributes="member: 6681948">I’m referring to setting the rules, so to me that happens out of game. More often, it happens without anyone noticing it as, much like @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6696971" target="_blank">Manbearcat</a> , I have a group that’s generally on common ground, so they don’t think you can whisper your spells or select the most generous possible spell interpretation. On occasion, interpretation issues must be resolved in play because they arise in play. Sometimes, we have to reassess an ability because it does prove excessive in play. But generally, there’s a common ground.So do I – it’s not your playstyle, so it should be disparaged as “speaking in funny voices”.Because you can con people without seducing them? Clearly, such a character needs to have some social skills, or he will not manifest in play as a charming con man. But he could be a sneak thief good at talking his way out of trouble rather than a charming con man.That reminds me of another issue on that @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6696971" target="_blank">Manbearcat</a> scene. @permerton, you previously commented on how the rules not matching the expectations is jarring – you mentioned wanting a strong character to PLAY as a strong character – to accomplish feats of strength in play. The 4e mechanics as played out in the scene above didn’t present a stubborn, strong-willed Chamberlain to me. Did you see a strong-willed, stubborn Chamberlain who truly challenged the social skills of the PC’s?Some might describe the “why” of the mechanics as “mere colour”. The effect lasted a specific period of time, then ended. Does it matter whether he was a frog, a toad or a rat? He’s equally helpless – colour. Does it matter why the spell ended? Not really – colour. Role play is largely colour – going beyond tactics and mechanics to add personality.How? If we ignore his religious convictions, would the spell end later? If he were more devout, would it never have taken hold? His role playing did not impact the mechanics. They did something much more important – they added the kind of colour that makes the game more fun.And is it really faith if it remains only when it tangibly manifests?  It must have been the Will of the Raven Queen that he spend several rounds as a frog - what message did that send?Mechanically, how is the rogue any less likely to benefit in your game? He colours it as luck, or personal skill, or what have you, but the mechanics are unchanged.Very true. We already have this to an extent in that the GM rarely presents a mundane matter that is truly a mundane matter. When we begin in the inn, enjoying a beverage, we know something will happen beyond whether we order another round,Agreed – the scenes are all thematically meaningful until the GM decides to run one that is not. We avoid pure colour scenes until we want a pure colour scene. @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a> noted he doesn’t want these as a steady diet, but I suggest this merely illustrates the desire for variety in the game, something I don’t think anyone has disagreed with (outside insistence that every scene be of similar import, with common chances and means of success, I suppose).I call that strategy and tactics, neither role playing nor ad libbing the story. The latter would be creating the passage the Giants must pass through, or imposing that the Giants are really friendly, and only want to give you a “I Visited The Hill Giant Steading” T Shirt (or that the noble, righteous King actually hands babies over to Dragons on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays). Actual role playing? That would be why the wizard is here to defend the townsfolk, despite being terrified of physical damage. That would be why, for example, he panics and uses that Wall of Iron to block off a force that wasn’t really much of a threat to the party.Again to @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6696971" target="_blank">Manbearcat</a> ’s scene – reading how the scene played out was entertaining. Reading the modifiers, DC’s and rolls was boring. The latter is mechanics. The former was all colour.An example: As a more experienced player, I got tired of everyone asking me what we should do instead of making their own decisions. Enter Colquehoun, the Scot Berserker. He was as seasoned a combatant as any in party, but he was raised on old wives’ tales. “Let’s catch the Pixie, pull his wings off and make him lead us to his pot of gold!” On his first encounter, we found Umber Hulks. DM: “How do you approach and attack the Umber Hulk.” ME: “Looking him square in the eye so he knows I’ve no fear of him – as any TRUE warrior would.” Metagame stupid, but clearly how this character would think. I was surprised he still let me roll a save (and rolling a ‘1’ felt right…).Amen, Brother!</blockquote>

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