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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6207057" data-attributes="member: 6681948">But therein lies the problem – we didn’t know dragons were coming and going until it was added in the course of the scene (it’s even noted that this was completely unplanned).  But if they were coming and going routinely, shouldn’t the PC’s have known about that already, in which case the “big reveal” of dragon tribute is more a confirmation than a reveal the baby still stirs the pot, though).   If the PC’s didn’t “know” dragons were coming and going before, then where was the fictional positioning to have them suddenly arrive?  How would this just routinely go unnoticed?   As a player, I think I would have grounds to ask why my character would be coming to the King to grant resources to fight the Dragon if I know he’s already engaged in an appeasement strategy, or if I know dragons come and go regularly from the Kings’ tower – but never attack and are never opposed.   Now, we’re handicapped here in that we lack the backstory – maybe the PC’s rushed to the Kingdom and haven’t taken the time to get the lay of the land.  But it seems reasonable to assume they’ve been here for long enough to at least hear tell that the King consorts with Dragons. First off, thanks for the quote – I thought I recalled the Rogue specifically responding to a threat of retribution.  As I read the writeup, the bluff was to convince the Drake that any action he takes to  bring retribution to the city will cost him dearly, so the retribution he just threatened should not be unertaken. Again, as a PC in the game, I think I would know how the King is perceived by his people before going to ask for his aid against the Dragon.  It seems like, for all we know walking through the door, the King might BE a Dragon. And maybe it’s unrealistic that prepared PC’s are walking in unaware of whether Dragons do, or do not, routinely come and go, where the palace is actually located (in view or obscured from the city), whether the people seem to respect or fear the King, and any other info one would expect living in this kingdom for any period of time would provide.  Instead, they’re completely blind. A solid observation.  Can the players decide, in rolling as they communicate with the Chamberlain, that the nation is actually ruled by a democratically elected Council of Twelve, which holds open meetings to  make all decisions?  If not, how was it established that it has an absolute monarch in charge of its governance, as it seems everything must be established in play.  “We wish to visit the Capitol City”  “Make a roll to see whether there is a Capitol City”; “Can we take a boat there?”  “Make a roll to see if it is a port city or is inland” seems like it would get very old, very fast.  No disagreement on anything above, with one exception.  Given the “success means success, full stop” view espoused by one of our Indie gamers (not [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] or [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], and I have not seen their viewpoint on that proviso), it seems that, if the players seek to slay the King and succeed in their rolls to do so, the King was a baby sacrificing, dragon dealing, cowardly tyrant and his death brings great rejoicing.  But if their roll fails, it seems like they still killed the king (success at their task), but the King was really a good a noble ruler and there were other factors in the scene that unfolded before the PC’s which would show this, but they foolishly killed the man whose plans were in motion to end the Dragon threat. It does seem like ”coin toss dungeon” to me.  Is there a door in the room?  Toss a coin and find out.  Is there a hallway behind it?  Toss a coin.  Does the hallway have any branches?  Roll on the “branches” chart.  How about doors?  Roll again.  Open the door.  Roll to see if it is locked, then we can roll to see what waits behind it, and so on ad infinitum.  Now, it's not as random as that, as either the player defines it or the GM does, depending on success on the roll.  Hence, I come back to "group storytelling", with passing of the speaking stick determined largely by die rolls.</blockquote>

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