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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6209072" data-attributes="member: 48965">Yeah this has been a point of contention between I and [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] before... and is one of the big areas that I find pemerton's play style lacking for my own (and my players) purposes.  I think one of the main points of playing a character like a paladin is the fact that there are hard choices (with consequences) that must be made but I find the approach of [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] (at least from the discussions we've had) insipid as far as exploring the thematic underpinnings of a class like the paladin (well at least the pre-4e paladin).  In other words this way of play seems to lack actual bite and the thematic exploration seems moreso color than any actual exploration.   Yep and this is just the problems I find with the paladin example above writ big.  It's the reasoning behind rogue sneak attacks always being effective against all foes, and paladins having no consequences for breaking their code or alignment, and clerics that are no longer empowered or dis-empowered  by their gods and water elementals who can be hurt by throwing more water at them... and so on. Again IMO, this goes back to my two earlier points...Exploration and thinking outside the box... Part of exploring (and for some/many people an integral part of the fun in the game) is being thrust into new situations and whatever unexpected circumstances that accompany it...  the rogue stumbling upon a creature his sneak attacks don't work on, a fire elemental which cannot be affected by fire based attacks, etc.  It is these very situations that give PC's an incentive to think outside of the box.  If my sneak attacks work on everything equally well, then what is my impetus to try something besides them?  If every spell, even fireball works on the fire elemental, when does my pyromancer need to think outside the box to win?  This was one of the aspects I feel hampers both the "exploration" aspect as well as the "outside the box thinking "aspect I was speaking too earlier in this thread.</blockquote>

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