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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TwoSix" data-source="post: 6209105" data-attributes="member: 205">Who's forcing you to do that?  Go find the intel.  No one's stopping you.  Roll some kind of knowledge check beforehand, or some kind of info-gathering check when you get there.You keep extrapolating [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION]'s example to be a lot more than it was.  It's an example from a continuing game, which means that extra information is already available to the characters.  Or, if it is a first session for an in medias res start, the characters would have some background information to go on.  Unless you're running a true "No Myth" game, which is rare even in indie circles, people agree on background and genre conventions well before the game starts.  I mean, Dresden Files RPG starts with a lot of background information (from the novels), and City Creation (which determines the campaign goals) is a whole chapter of the RPG book and assumed to take up most if not all of the first session of play.Maybe.  Realizing the deceit would make for a cool moment.  I'd run it, and more importantly, play it out if it happened to my character. I'm still amused by your contention that the Rogue could bluff a servitor drake into somehow not getting his master to retaliate upon realizing his scheme was being challenged by an upstart paladin of Bahamat.  That's wholly illogical scene framing, and the player doesn't have that level of authority over the antagonists in a big-damn-heroes fantasy game.  Depends on the game.  In FATE, I'd be compelling the Aspect of "Paladin Code of Honor" ALL THE TIME.  After all, that's what FATE is all about.  You get FATE points for choosing to accept the DM's offered path of your character being screwed over.  It's the driver of the fun.In 4e, I'd be much less likely to.  I'd rather create encounters where the paladin can chose the path of glorious valor in facing his foes.  "24"-esque situations of "torture the prisoner or the village dies!" are no fun from my perspective, since 4e isn't about challenging your beliefs; its theme is more one of living out your heroic destiny in a badass way.Sort of irrelevant.  In 4e, it's virtually impossible to build a character that completely sucks in every sort of non-combat situation.  Finding ways to succeed in skill challenges where your skills aren't optimal is part of the challenge, yes.  In FATE, being crappy at a certain type of challenge (say, a royal ball when you have the Aspect "Manners of a Goat") actually lets you build up resources for later by totally screwing up the current scene. A success is a success - full stop.  The player's intent is realized.  The current scene plays out with the player's success becoming part of the narrative.  That does not stop the road to hell from being paved with the player's good intentions.Ultimately, how far the player's intent can be realized by any one success is a matter of negotiation between the players at the table, and subject to genre convention.  Your reach as a god in Nobilis is much farther than if you're playing a heroic firefighter in FATE Core.  So how does that align with “But before we went to visit the King, I would have taken a measure of the King’s reputation among his people, looked at which way the palace faces and listened enough to know if Dragons routinely fly in and out of the King’s palace.”</blockquote>[/QUOTE]

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