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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6225726" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Could be. There seems to have been some confusion as to what you (and I) meant by &quot;social&quot;. I'll elaborate.D&amp;D is more than just a social outlet in the same way that basketball and working out are social outlets. &quot;Being a social outlet&quot; is derivative of the 1st order nature of those pasttimes. The impetus of basketball is to atheletically compete within the confines of a structured rulest until the victory conditions are acheieved. There are multiple 2nd order effects, &quot;a social outlet&quot; being one of them (exercise being another). Cross-training, runnnig or working out (in any fashion) is the same. These activities may have derivative effects/perks, but the constructs themselves are predicated opon &quot;physical competition&quot; and &quot;fitness improvement or maintenance.&quot;These differ from, say, &quot;getting drinks&quot; or &quot;getting coffee&quot; in that those activities serve the primary function of &quot;social outlet.&quot; They may have derivative effects/perks, but the construct itself is predicated opon &quot;being a social outlet.&quot;For the same reason that (at this point in my oh so very long GMing tenure) I don't want people coming to the court or doing cross-fit with me who are primarily interested in &quot;coffee talk&quot; or &quot;a social outlet&quot;, I don't want the same thing in the games that I run. That is, unless I'm doing a one-off that is literally serving as social grease for buddies to have a laugh. I also don't want to have a cup of coffee with someone who wants to turn it into a coffee drinking competition or sit there quietly for the hour.Yup. Good post. @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a> always tries to stress the temporal aspect of the creative agenda as the relevant portion; &quot;Now&quot;. That, of course, is on the money. Its not &quot;Story during writing of the adventure path (prior).&quot; Its not &quot;Story later on at some point after we get to all of these unrelated side-quests.&quot; Its &quot;Story Now&quot;, as in we are &quot;seeing what happens&quot; when conflict resolution mechanics meet thematic stress, meets player resources, meets player cues (overt via outright fiction imposition or more subdued as in backstory that is meant to be invoked by the GM), and GMing by way of pressuring players with conflict-charged situations that synthesizes it all and forces it into the forefront of each session.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6225726, member: 6696971"] Could be. There seems to have been some confusion as to what you (and I) meant by "social". I'll elaborate. D&D is more than just a social outlet in the same way that basketball and working out are social outlets. "Being a social outlet" is derivative of the 1st order nature of those pasttimes. The impetus of basketball is to atheletically compete within the confines of a structured rulest until the victory conditions are acheieved. There are multiple 2nd order effects, "a social outlet" being one of them (exercise being another). Cross-training, runnnig or working out (in any fashion) is the same. These activities may have derivative effects/perks, but the constructs themselves are predicated opon "physical competition" and "fitness improvement or maintenance." These differ from, say, "getting drinks" or "getting coffee" in that those activities serve the primary function of "social outlet." They may have derivative effects/perks, but the construct itself is predicated opon "being a social outlet." For the same reason that (at this point in my oh so very long GMing tenure) I don't want people coming to the court or doing cross-fit with me who are primarily interested in "coffee talk" or "a social outlet", I don't want the same thing in the games that I run. That is, unless I'm doing a one-off that is literally serving as social grease for buddies to have a laugh. I also don't want to have a cup of coffee with someone who wants to turn it into a coffee drinking competition or sit there quietly for the hour. Yup. Good post. @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582"]pemerton[/URL][/U][/B][/I] always tries to stress the temporal aspect of the creative agenda as the relevant portion; "Now". That, of course, is on the money. Its not "Story during writing of the adventure path (prior)." Its not "Story later on at some point after we get to all of these unrelated side-quests." Its "Story[I] Now", [/I]as in we are "seeing what happens" when conflict resolution mechanics meet thematic stress, meets player resources, meets player cues (overt via outright fiction imposition or more subdued as in backstory that is meant to be invoked by the GM), and GMing by way of pressuring players with conflict-charged situations that synthesizes it all and forces it into the forefront of each session. [/QUOTE]

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