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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6236272" data-attributes="member: 6681948">I question whether “perfect knowledge” ever exists.  If it is a standard assumption of the setting, I would expect your character to know that, typically, there are spellcasters at the Royal Court who are on the lookout for unauthorized use of magic in the King’s Court.  If there are not, and if we accept your premise that the Charm Person spell is a trump card to force any NPC to accede to your wishes, then there is no way the social structure could be maintained.  Therefore, either the Charm Person spell lacks the power you wish to ascribe to it, or something defends the higher ups from its impact. Whether that “something” is known to all or a closely guarded secret, whether it is uniform or varies from kingdom to kingdom, etc. can certainly depend on the game world.  In one location, it could be acolytes of the State Religion using Detect Magic (zero level spells being even more common than 1[SUP]st[/SUP] level spells).  In others, it could be Court Wizards, magic items, anti-magic shells or zones, or any number of other mechanical means that detect or prevent mind-affecting magic.   But, if we accept that magic is so common that wizards can expect to find scrolls of any spell their black little hearts could desire available for purchase in any settlement of reasonable size, or even so they can readily locate materials to research any spell they wish (which they clearly can as their selection on advancement is neither random nor constrained), then we must also consider that such common magic must have had some impact on how the rest of the world operates.  One such ramification is that those in power likely have defenses against magic, especially common, low level magic. Again, I ask how obvious it is that your character, who wishes to cast that Charm Person, is a spell caster.  If it is easy for your character to know whether or not there are casters there, why is it not equally easy for people to know your character is also a caster?  Is it your contention that all the world’s an open book, except for the PC’s who should be shrouded in impenetrable mystery? Can the players know with certainty the numbers and capabilities of the King’s Guard?  Is failure to broadcast those details “screwing over the fighters”?  I don’t think so, but that’s the conclusion I would have to reach if I apply your definition of “screwing over the players”. It seems like you define “screwing over the players” as including any situation where the players lack omniscience and omnipotence, and recognize no middle ground between “at every opportunity” and “never, no not even once”. You are the only one saying that.  I don’t consider the King, or his chamberlain, possessing defenses that prevent a first level spell converting them to sock puppets to be “adversarial GMing”, any more than I consider the King’s Champion having the combat skill to defeat low level PC’s, or the King not running around undefended to fall prey to the PC’s should they have some whim to do him harm, or the King  not having an open door policy to meet with any bunch of murderhobos who happen to darken his doorstep, to be adversarial GMing.There is, again, a large continuum between “no chance of success” and “autosuccess” which you seem unable to perceive.  That said, why would Charm Person being a quick and easy solution to any dispute with an NPC be any more reasonable an expectation than a 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] level fighter expecting to be able to storm the castle of the King, take on all comers, and emerge victorious with nary a scratch?  Neither makes for a good, challenging game (as opposed to an adolescent power fantasy). As well, The fact that a Charm spell is an attack seems to be conveniently overlooked by those players wishing to use it to make the NPC’s into sock puppets with impunity.  The fact that there must be a host of characters in the world capable of casting this spell also seems ignored.  Given this, how can we reasonably assume there are no common defenses against this tactic?  How could any ruler with no such defenses retain his crown?I’m curious, [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION], how you envision a wizard who opposes you and having access to the Charm Person spell would deal with your party of PC’s?  Should he also be able to undetectably convert the PC’s into his sock puppets, or are PC’s special snowflakes who should be both irresistible forces and immovable objects?  If he is detected, should the PC’s be expected to just laugh it off as a friendly chat, or would they take action against the caster?  You seem to expect the rest of the world to behave very differently from the PC’s.Agreed.  And this comes back to the main thrust of the discussion – when the rules are interpreted reasonably in light of the game as a whole, a lot of the “overpowered caster” issues go away.  To me, that is not “screwing over the players at every opportunity”, but applying a reasonable interpretation of the rules and their implications on the game world.</blockquote>

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