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Fighters vs. Spellcasters (a case for fighters.)
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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6239417" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>In my view, the ease with which a wizard can select new spells under the basic rules, and the expectation that magic items will be readily available, presupposes a very high magic setting. In a low magic setting, it would not be possible to locate any desired spell at will as the PC levels up, nor to buy scrolls to augment this, nor would we see magic weapons in such abundance that the warriors can pick and choose which magic weapons they will keep and which will be sold (or sell all of them and have your own custom weapon commissioned from a local wizard). We would not likely have that local wizard who routinely purchases magical loot, nor would we have such an abundance of magical loot that this would become an issue. In such a low magic environment, the general populace would be limited to superstition, and the wizard's abilities would be much less well known. But advertising oneself as a Wizard seeking employment would likely not carry the same results it carries in the typical game either. And why would a person of such rare skills be found in a common mercenary band to begin with?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In neither Conan nor LoTR was wizardry common. When do we see fireballs and lightning bolts in those works? How many spells did one of the most powerful wizards in all of Middle Earth cast over the course of the trilogy? How many had the combat punch of a single Burning Hands or Magic Missile spell? Magic in D&D is far more common, and quite different, from magic in Conan or LoTR, so the game milieu has different reactions to it. RPG's in general, and D&D specifically, have made magic far more common and vastly more versatile than it is in most fantasy literature, and certainly more than in Conan or LoTR. A price for spellcasting services among other mundane trades implies, to me, a much more common availability of magic than most literature would support.</p><p></p><p>I didn't see Gandalf getting the various players to co-operate with him through the use of Charm spells, and I don't recall Conan attempting a lot of will saves. If we expect that the King's Court will largely match these settings, then I suggest we should also expect the frequency, versatility and utility of magic to similarly align with those settings. I don't think the Conan RPG features wizards who routinely get political access and power through Charm spells, or who are able to defeat powerful enemies in open combat through their spellcasting.</p><p></p><p>Fantasy RPG's have historically made magic much more useful, especially in combat situations, than the source literature generally reflects, largely to make the Wizard and other spellcasters viable, enjoyable player characters. If we simply accept increased power and versatility for the spellcasters with no impact on the world in which they live then, yes. the spellcasters will become overpowered.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think NPC classes, many of which can also cast spells, are intended for <u>players</u>. In older editions, where spells were not automatically selected by PC wizards as they advanced in level, and magic items generally not readily available for purchase, a much lower magic environment would seem much more plausible. The 3e rule set implies much more common magic, and this comes with a reasonable expectation that it be much more accessible, and much more publicly known. Does that mean every King is an expert in magic? No, just as the POTUS is likely not an expert in military hardware, or in computer science. But he does have access to such experts, and a ruler in a D&D setting with magic as common as the rules imply would logically have similar access.</p><p></p><p>If, instead, we assume that magic is rare and largely unknown, with only a handful of spellcasters in the world, then we augment the power of magic simply because of its rarity. But that rarity also carries drawbacks, including a much reduced availability of magical components, sources for spell research, etc. which would logically mean, for example, you don't just get to select any two spells desired on gaining a level, picking your areas of study off the shelf. Spellcasting would likely be viewed with much greater suspicion, as "wizard" would not be a profession one could simply announce with any expectation of being taken seriously. </p><p></p><p>It doesn't change the need to speak one's verbal components in a strong, clear voice, and make strange hand gestures. It certainly doesn't alter the likelihood that enchanting the Chamberlain, if discovered, will likely carry negative repercussions (although it does markedly reduce the likelihood of such discovery). And, as has been stated numerous times on this thread alone, it contributes to an imbalance between fighters and spellcasters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6239417, member: 6681948"] In my view, the ease with which a wizard can select new spells under the basic rules, and the expectation that magic items will be readily available, presupposes a very high magic setting. In a low magic setting, it would not be possible to locate any desired spell at will as the PC levels up, nor to buy scrolls to augment this, nor would we see magic weapons in such abundance that the warriors can pick and choose which magic weapons they will keep and which will be sold (or sell all of them and have your own custom weapon commissioned from a local wizard). We would not likely have that local wizard who routinely purchases magical loot, nor would we have such an abundance of magical loot that this would become an issue. In such a low magic environment, the general populace would be limited to superstition, and the wizard's abilities would be much less well known. But advertising oneself as a Wizard seeking employment would likely not carry the same results it carries in the typical game either. And why would a person of such rare skills be found in a common mercenary band to begin with? In neither Conan nor LoTR was wizardry common. When do we see fireballs and lightning bolts in those works? How many spells did one of the most powerful wizards in all of Middle Earth cast over the course of the trilogy? How many had the combat punch of a single Burning Hands or Magic Missile spell? Magic in D&D is far more common, and quite different, from magic in Conan or LoTR, so the game milieu has different reactions to it. RPG's in general, and D&D specifically, have made magic far more common and vastly more versatile than it is in most fantasy literature, and certainly more than in Conan or LoTR. A price for spellcasting services among other mundane trades implies, to me, a much more common availability of magic than most literature would support. I didn't see Gandalf getting the various players to co-operate with him through the use of Charm spells, and I don't recall Conan attempting a lot of will saves. If we expect that the King's Court will largely match these settings, then I suggest we should also expect the frequency, versatility and utility of magic to similarly align with those settings. I don't think the Conan RPG features wizards who routinely get political access and power through Charm spells, or who are able to defeat powerful enemies in open combat through their spellcasting. Fantasy RPG's have historically made magic much more useful, especially in combat situations, than the source literature generally reflects, largely to make the Wizard and other spellcasters viable, enjoyable player characters. If we simply accept increased power and versatility for the spellcasters with no impact on the world in which they live then, yes. the spellcasters will become overpowered. I don't think NPC classes, many of which can also cast spells, are intended for [U]players[/U]. In older editions, where spells were not automatically selected by PC wizards as they advanced in level, and magic items generally not readily available for purchase, a much lower magic environment would seem much more plausible. The 3e rule set implies much more common magic, and this comes with a reasonable expectation that it be much more accessible, and much more publicly known. Does that mean every King is an expert in magic? No, just as the POTUS is likely not an expert in military hardware, or in computer science. But he does have access to such experts, and a ruler in a D&D setting with magic as common as the rules imply would logically have similar access. If, instead, we assume that magic is rare and largely unknown, with only a handful of spellcasters in the world, then we augment the power of magic simply because of its rarity. But that rarity also carries drawbacks, including a much reduced availability of magical components, sources for spell research, etc. which would logically mean, for example, you don't just get to select any two spells desired on gaining a level, picking your areas of study off the shelf. Spellcasting would likely be viewed with much greater suspicion, as "wizard" would not be a profession one could simply announce with any expectation of being taken seriously. It doesn't change the need to speak one's verbal components in a strong, clear voice, and make strange hand gestures. It certainly doesn't alter the likelihood that enchanting the Chamberlain, if discovered, will likely carry negative repercussions (although it does markedly reduce the likelihood of such discovery). And, as has been stated numerous times on this thread alone, it contributes to an imbalance between fighters and spellcasters. [/QUOTE]
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