Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Fighters vs. Spellcasters (a case for fighters.)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6239665" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>He has not indicated that any such variances are needed to balance spellcasters with fighters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Funny...these examples do not seem to suggest the wizard (or some other caster - now, you seem to suggest the problem is simply the spellcasters with broad spell selections) has the exclusive purview to impose his will on the game's fictional content. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I doubt very much that Ahnehnois would deny a player the ability to take any of these actions. But I don't believe any of them fall into what most of us consider "changing the gameworld's fictional content". These hardly seem comparable with causing a wizard to spring into existence to purchase our loot, or to cause the snows not to block a mountain pass.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This still seems a matter of degrees. The players can, for example, say "The wizard is not there to buy our loot? Very well, we'll move on. Let's head to the Palace and see if we can arrange an appointment with the Chamberlain." In so doing, they shift the location of the action to the Royal Court. It is only when they insist that no, the Wizard MUST be there, prepared to acquire our loot, that they lose their ability to direct the narrative. If they direct that we deal with the loot now, then they have directed that sale of the loot is, in fact, where the action is. The GM is determining the extent and nature of that action. That is, he is now framing a scene based on the express desire of the players to sell the loot, and setting challenges to their ability to achieve the desired result.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't find these comparable. The character's combat skill directly influences whether he is able to deal with the slippery mud, or the wind conditions. If he were more skilled (higher BAB), he would have compensated and still hit with that roll (assuming no "automiss 1"). However, no amount of extra skill at tracking and wilderness lore is going to stop the snow blocking off a mountain pass, and no level of local knowledge will cause a willing buyer for our loot to materialize, so success at these tasks should not, in my view, be a function of the character's skill. Similarly, the PC's skills do not influence the likelihood of a random encounter as they travel and - oh look - the probability of such occurrences is typically set at a flat likelihood based on time travelling, or distance travelled, or some other function, but not a roll influenced by the PC's skills, as their skills do not influence whether rats scurry by, or the orcs chose to stay in their village today.</p><p></p><p>I suppose we could envision a game where things just "fall into place" more reliably for higher level characters, but even then this would reasonably be a function of the character's level, not of his specific skills.</p><p></p><p>That would not prevent a system where the GM does not decide these events, but instead they are randomly rolled. However, this would require some means of objectively setting the probability that this specific pass is blocked at this specific time of year - how would these odds be set, if not by a GM based on the parameters established within the game world?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6239665, member: 6681948"] He has not indicated that any such variances are needed to balance spellcasters with fighters. Funny...these examples do not seem to suggest the wizard (or some other caster - now, you seem to suggest the problem is simply the spellcasters with broad spell selections) has the exclusive purview to impose his will on the game's fictional content. I doubt very much that Ahnehnois would deny a player the ability to take any of these actions. But I don't believe any of them fall into what most of us consider "changing the gameworld's fictional content". These hardly seem comparable with causing a wizard to spring into existence to purchase our loot, or to cause the snows not to block a mountain pass. This still seems a matter of degrees. The players can, for example, say "The wizard is not there to buy our loot? Very well, we'll move on. Let's head to the Palace and see if we can arrange an appointment with the Chamberlain." In so doing, they shift the location of the action to the Royal Court. It is only when they insist that no, the Wizard MUST be there, prepared to acquire our loot, that they lose their ability to direct the narrative. If they direct that we deal with the loot now, then they have directed that sale of the loot is, in fact, where the action is. The GM is determining the extent and nature of that action. That is, he is now framing a scene based on the express desire of the players to sell the loot, and setting challenges to their ability to achieve the desired result. I don't find these comparable. The character's combat skill directly influences whether he is able to deal with the slippery mud, or the wind conditions. If he were more skilled (higher BAB), he would have compensated and still hit with that roll (assuming no "automiss 1"). However, no amount of extra skill at tracking and wilderness lore is going to stop the snow blocking off a mountain pass, and no level of local knowledge will cause a willing buyer for our loot to materialize, so success at these tasks should not, in my view, be a function of the character's skill. Similarly, the PC's skills do not influence the likelihood of a random encounter as they travel and - oh look - the probability of such occurrences is typically set at a flat likelihood based on time travelling, or distance travelled, or some other function, but not a roll influenced by the PC's skills, as their skills do not influence whether rats scurry by, or the orcs chose to stay in their village today. I suppose we could envision a game where things just "fall into place" more reliably for higher level characters, but even then this would reasonably be a function of the character's level, not of his specific skills. That would not prevent a system where the GM does not decide these events, but instead they are randomly rolled. However, this would require some means of objectively setting the probability that this specific pass is blocked at this specific time of year - how would these odds be set, if not by a GM based on the parameters established within the game world? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Fighters vs. Spellcasters (a case for fighters.)
Top