Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Fighters vs. Spellcasters (a case for fighters.)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6242316" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>My recollection is a distinction between spell completion and other items, but perhaps the clarification is in Pathfinder rather than in 3.5. There is another difference between spell completion and other items, however. The material components and xp costs must be incurred for spell completion items, while for other items, the creator "need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require, nor are any XP costs inherent in a prerequisite spell incurred in the creation of the item". </p><p></p><p>The scroll rules are more specific that "The act of writing triggers the scroll", so what does the person with the Scribe Scroll feat do, if they do not in fact write the scroll? </p><p></p><p>Here we go - <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm" target="_blank">http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm</a></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This does not apply to other items, and seems to imply that the creator must be the caster - no one else can pay the xp cost of the spell. </p><p></p><p>Further, read the text of the feat. You may Brew a potion "of any 3rd level of lower spell that you know", scribe a scroll "of any spell that you know", and create a wand "of any 4th-level or lower spell that you know". The other crafting feats allow you to create a relevant item "whose prerequisites you meet", and do not refer to you specifically knowing spells. Thus, the ability to provide a spell you don't know can meet the prerequisites of the feats other than potions, scrolls and wands. The last three mention specifically knowing the spell, and not meeting prerequisites.</p><p></p><p>I agree there is some lack of clarity, leaving this in the feat but not specifying it in the crafting rules. However, we are back to interpretations that, if they do not clearly contradict the rules, are clearly the most favourable interpretation possible to the spellcaster.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sorry, I should have put the phrase in quotes, as pretty much every read of the rules that does not favour the spellcaster to the maximum extent possible (or even override the clear words in favour of the caster) has been indicated by posters other than yourself to be "heavy handed restrictions" on the spellcasters. Still, while I would suggest making all spells have a minimum 10 minute casting time would clearly move the balance in combat to the fighter, it would presumably be viewed as a very heavy-handed manner of implementing balance.</p><p></p><p>To the specific issues, I would say that Weather Sense and Weather Control should be balanced exactly against one another if each requires an equal dedication of character resources. If each requires, say, one skill point per level and nothing else to max out, they should be of equal utility. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I suggest there is no question that no module ever written can cover every possible reaction or approach by the players and, as such, full player freedom equates to being willing to modify or abandon parts of, or even the entirety of, the module. There is an aspect of railroading in any module. It is simply a question of how much. The module would be just as abandoned if the players decided they weren't motivated by the promise of the loot in the dungeon, and went looking for other work. There is a general presumption of widely shared motivations of PC's in pretty much every module, although more recent modules tend to suggest a broader array of possible hooks and/or provide guidance to players to create characters who will be motivated to participate in the module.</p><p></p><p>As a longstanding example, how many groups prohibit evil characters, at least in part because the scenarios will involve a battle against evil? How would the Giants modules play out if the players desired to join (or lead) the giants, or offered their services to Llolth? I think most modules provide one or more expected adversaries to the PC's and don't typically envision the PC's deciding to ally with those expected adversaries (much less successfully forge such an alliance). Doubtless there are occasional exceptions, much like there is the occasional module designed for solo play, which minimizes combat and/or is designed for Evil characters, but the norm is to provide adversaries to the PC's in some form or another.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6242316, member: 6681948"] My recollection is a distinction between spell completion and other items, but perhaps the clarification is in Pathfinder rather than in 3.5. There is another difference between spell completion and other items, however. The material components and xp costs must be incurred for spell completion items, while for other items, the creator "need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require, nor are any XP costs inherent in a prerequisite spell incurred in the creation of the item". The scroll rules are more specific that "The act of writing triggers the scroll", so what does the person with the Scribe Scroll feat do, if they do not in fact write the scroll? Here we go - [url]http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm[/url] This does not apply to other items, and seems to imply that the creator must be the caster - no one else can pay the xp cost of the spell. Further, read the text of the feat. You may Brew a potion "of any 3rd level of lower spell that you know", scribe a scroll "of any spell that you know", and create a wand "of any 4th-level or lower spell that you know". The other crafting feats allow you to create a relevant item "whose prerequisites you meet", and do not refer to you specifically knowing spells. Thus, the ability to provide a spell you don't know can meet the prerequisites of the feats other than potions, scrolls and wands. The last three mention specifically knowing the spell, and not meeting prerequisites. I agree there is some lack of clarity, leaving this in the feat but not specifying it in the crafting rules. However, we are back to interpretations that, if they do not clearly contradict the rules, are clearly the most favourable interpretation possible to the spellcaster. Sorry, I should have put the phrase in quotes, as pretty much every read of the rules that does not favour the spellcaster to the maximum extent possible (or even override the clear words in favour of the caster) has been indicated by posters other than yourself to be "heavy handed restrictions" on the spellcasters. Still, while I would suggest making all spells have a minimum 10 minute casting time would clearly move the balance in combat to the fighter, it would presumably be viewed as a very heavy-handed manner of implementing balance. To the specific issues, I would say that Weather Sense and Weather Control should be balanced exactly against one another if each requires an equal dedication of character resources. If each requires, say, one skill point per level and nothing else to max out, they should be of equal utility. I suggest there is no question that no module ever written can cover every possible reaction or approach by the players and, as such, full player freedom equates to being willing to modify or abandon parts of, or even the entirety of, the module. There is an aspect of railroading in any module. It is simply a question of how much. The module would be just as abandoned if the players decided they weren't motivated by the promise of the loot in the dungeon, and went looking for other work. There is a general presumption of widely shared motivations of PC's in pretty much every module, although more recent modules tend to suggest a broader array of possible hooks and/or provide guidance to players to create characters who will be motivated to participate in the module. As a longstanding example, how many groups prohibit evil characters, at least in part because the scenarios will involve a battle against evil? How would the Giants modules play out if the players desired to join (or lead) the giants, or offered their services to Llolth? I think most modules provide one or more expected adversaries to the PC's and don't typically envision the PC's deciding to ally with those expected adversaries (much less successfully forge such an alliance). Doubtless there are occasional exceptions, much like there is the occasional module designed for solo play, which minimizes combat and/or is designed for Evil characters, but the norm is to provide adversaries to the PC's in some form or another. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Fighters vs. Spellcasters (a case for fighters.)
Top