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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6245005" data-attributes="member: 67338">I've seen games where monsters make almost every save... and yes fighters hold up better in that scenario, but they still fall behind when you start targeting low saves and no saves... As a fan of oWoD Mage I completely agree, over the years I have tried a few times to make casters run more like that from day 1. The closest I came ended up looking more like a mix of Psion and incarnum. (not a huge moment of pride in my homebrew career) it depends on how big of power gamers they are. Like I said there is no way it is the most optimal but it totally fits.. we have vastly different experiences. lets pretend that we don't have epic spells of there own... the build I had multi spell and automatic quicken... he can cast magic missle or lesser orb of X both are no save extra damage and he can just throw them twice for no action cost... heck he can throw a fire ball and a dispel magic both as free actions before using his action... or if he needs it cure X wounds (up to 3rd level) now those are just free actions, not his main spells... so what did the fighter do, that the spellcaster could not also do?  first of all, I just don't see how cleric is a crappy spell caster at all... oh I agree, the only reason I bring it up is because the normal way I have heard it is "well when the spell caster runs out of spells the fighter keeps being a fighter" and yea, with reserve feats the game was better in my mind... believe it or not my characters are made not to be power gamers but to be story parts... I still wont play a straight fighter...</blockquote>

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