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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Abaddonn" data-source="post: 4844317" data-attributes="member: 84277">Thanks so much for the feedback guys, it exactly what iv been looking for.  This is great stuff, iv enjoyed reading through it. As has been said, while the location of the final battle isnt detailed enough to be astounding, the story line and build up to fighting a Demon Prince is very interesting. The complexities of the plot to weaken Demogorgon before fighting him are perfect.  All very good points. Funny you should mention the Lich Queen, they did the quest chain some time ago and went through her in much the same way your players did....very fast. It is the memory of that that made seek out ideas here to make sure Vecna is more of a challenge.They are an experienced group, having fought together for a long time they know how to work efficiently as a group, bouncing off each others power well. They seem to excell at burst damage, they go in hard and fast and slay quickly, which has stunned me a number of times against very powerful opponents. They have beaten a number of the more nasty beasts in the epic handbook quite tidily, which has impressed me. That said, if their fast attack plans dont go well, they seem to stumble a bit in later rounds.  Im going to use that version but epic'd out. probably 30/30 wizard/priest, i actually think he deserves more power than that but with the addition of divine powers and minions i think it will be more than enough.I like the idea of the anti-magic field, but one of the players is a mage and i dont want to exclude him completely from the fight. As realistic as it would be, it wouldnt be much fun for that player, and fun is the goal here. That said, I have made Vecna a master of golem creation, he has many mithril and adamantium golems at his disposal, all of which are immune to magic....this has something of the same effect without making one player go sulk in the corner. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> They do have a divine patron backing them from the shadows, also they already have the eye of Vecna, and its to be a race against time to get the hand before confonting Vecna himself. Wielding both artifacts will weaken the God. As for why he doesnt plane shift away, the idea is that they will lure him with the hand and eye, hopefully defeat that aspect and so banish Vecna to his own plane where he cannot leave for a set peirod of time. Still considering this though.... That said, he will be free to teleport across his own plane, so the fight should rage through many of the epic environments RangerWickett describes. I to love cool dynamic environments.  This is how i have played but they have reached a lvl where things are changing. Also I have read much material where god and demon princes etc dont seem as untouchable as i always thought. Grazzt gets done over by a single epic character Iggwilv, in the old modules the Blood Throne Orcus dies to the adventurers, in the history of the Hells arch-devils seem to drop and rise like flies in their own internal struggles, etc. Add to this that Vecna was once not so long ago a mortal, it allows for a touch of vulnerability i would hesitate in giving to an eternal greater god. In the end its time for a change from just bigger meaner monsters. The glory of this game is that the imagination is the limit, and it seems these players have earned the right to rise up into an even greater arena. The epic rules allow for awesome power, and i think its time the adventures, villains, and environments reflected this. Long post. Its great hearing your ideas and opinions, keep em coming. I'll post what i decide to use as the setting and stats once i get it nailed down. Thnx!Ab.</blockquote>

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