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<blockquote data-quote="Xeviat" data-source="post: 6707028" data-attributes="member: 57494">My baseline was 65% chance to hit. Having two attacks boosts that all the way to 87.75% chance to land at least one attack. Factoring in the increased chance of landing a crit nets you a big boost in sneak attack damage.Nope, I did mean surprise. I'm using the assassin subclass. Surprise turns hits into crits on the first round. I assumed that an assassin player will be striving for these surprise attacks (trying to stay stealthed between fights) but that they wouldn't succeed all the time.Okay, checked them ... nope, that's what it is. 65% to 87.75% chance to sneak attack is a big gain. They don't deal much damage except for sneak attack.Not 78% behind; 78% of what the shortsword wielder does.1d8+3+1d6 (11) at 65% is 7.15.1d6+3 (7.5) at 65% is 4.875; 1d6 (3.5) at 65% is 2.275; 1d6 sneak attack (3.5) at 87.75% is 3.07; totaled to 12.84; rapier is doing 56% what the shortswords are doing.My rapier is 1d8+3+1d8 (12) at 75% for 9; still less than the shortswords at this level. You'll note that even with my change, the rapier is dealing less than the two shortswords, so they are still losing some power in return for having their bonus action and hand free.Less options, more power; more options usually doesn't equate to such a dramatic loss of power.The ability to grab and do other things with the offhand is a minor increase in options; those things tend to take actions or attacks too, so it's not like having an empty hand lets you attack and do those things without giving up other attacks (which the rogue doesn't have multiattack).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Xeviat, post: 6707028, member: 57494"] My baseline was 65% chance to hit. Having two attacks boosts that all the way to 87.75% chance to land at least one attack. Factoring in the increased chance of landing a crit nets you a big boost in sneak attack damage. Nope, I did mean surprise. I'm using the assassin subclass. Surprise turns hits into crits on the first round. I assumed that an assassin player will be striving for these surprise attacks (trying to stay stealthed between fights) but that they wouldn't succeed all the time. Okay, checked them ... nope, that's what it is. 65% to 87.75% chance to sneak attack is a big gain. They don't deal much damage except for sneak attack. Not 78% behind; 78% of what the shortsword wielder does. 1d8+3+1d6 (11) at 65% is 7.15. 1d6+3 (7.5) at 65% is 4.875; 1d6 (3.5) at 65% is 2.275; 1d6 sneak attack (3.5) at 87.75% is 3.07; totaled to 12.84; rapier is doing 56% what the shortswords are doing. My rapier is 1d8+3+1d8 (12) at 75% for 9; still less than the shortswords at this level. You'll note that even with my change, the rapier is dealing less than the two shortswords, so they are still losing some power in return for having their bonus action and hand free. Less options, more power; more options usually doesn't equate to such a dramatic loss of power. The ability to grab and do other things with the offhand is a minor increase in options; those things tend to take actions or attacks too, so it's not like having an empty hand lets you attack and do those things without giving up other attacks (which the rogue doesn't have multiattack). [/QUOTE]

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