Fighting the Undead

[gjnave]

I miss the old school style of undead fighting clerics. A number of Turn Undeads, which could outright disintergrate a monster, depending on your level. Skeletons fleeing, for a number of rounds based on a die roll, etc...

Ive been very unsatisfied with creating such a character in 4e. An extremely limited ability to turn undead... undead abilities, mostly just sliding a character (woohoo), and so on... I do have to say that the Sacred Ground spell (name?) is pretty darn good - not sure why it effects every (non undead) enemy though.

ANy ideas? Home-rules? Does Essentials take care of this?

Thanks!

 

[Almacov]

I'd typically model the old-school skeletons you're describing as minions.
If you encounter those in game, the effect Turn Undead (or any area/burst power) has on them will be nearly as spectacular.
Non-minion undead are meant to be the hardier, harder to turn sort.

If you wish you had more Turn Undead uses per day, I'd recommend loading up on radiant burst powers, then just roleplaying a religious fury/chastisement whenever you activate them. Most undead are vulnerable to radiant damage anyway, so the effect will feel different from using the powers on living targets.

 

[Droogie128]

If you really want to wreak havoc on undead, play an Avenger and load up on the radiant powers. They can rip through them.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I miss the old school style of undead fighting clerics. A number of Turn Undeads, which could outright disintergrate a monster, depending on your level. Skeletons fleeing, for a number of rounds based on a die roll, etc...

2e was famous for having good flavor but poor mechanics. The good news: zombies and skeletons were easy to kill, liches were not. The bad news: that horrendous table, and also making undead encounters extremely swingy.

IMO, the ability to instantly disintegrate an undead is over the top (unless they're minion). You can pile on a little turn undead and at least partially melt the opponents (that's damage on top of the pushing and immobilizing effect; note that most undead are vulnerable to the radiant damage that turn undead dishes out as well).

 

[Prestidigitalis]

IMO, the ability to instantly disintegrate an undead is over the top

But it can be oh so right, witness the final episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Admittedly, that was using what would probably qualify as an Artifact...

(I just discovered Buffy earlier this year and can't stop evangelizing the awesomeness of the show. I wish it had aired when I was a teenage girl, dealing with most of the same garbage, except for the vampires and other minor stuff.)

 

[Ryujin]

Our radiant-spitting Cleric was hell on undead. The amount of radiant damage that he could spit out, especially against radiant vulnerable undead, was (pardon the pun) ungodly high. If he didn't past them with the first hit, then it was the second or third. Or fourth. Or fith.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

But it can be oh so right, witness the final episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Admittedly, that was using what would probably qualify as an Artifact...

Without an artifact, just use lower-level undead. But make them scary in groups (look at the guard drake or gnolls for inspiration, or give them short-range damage-dealing auras), so the cleric gets their chance to shine. (The other characters would be struggling in melee combat.)

Of course, this does mean the GM needs to make their own monsters, but there's no problem with that route.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, any cleric can and will disintegrate minion level zombies and skeletons etc left and right without mercy. With other undead the effect is a BIT less pronounced but basically if you unleash turn undead at low levels it is going to have a huge effect on the encounter. If clerics were any more potent than they are now vs undead it would basically be yet another instant win kind of effect. I haven't thrown much undead against anyone in a couple months, but a Radiant Servant cleric with the Sun domain is sick. You can mix in radiant damage to almost any attack and with a couple feats easily be doing fun things like ongoing 20 radiant to every undead in a burst 10. If that ain't good enough, then what is?

 

[Ryujin]

Without an artifact, just use lower-level undead. But make them scary in groups (look at the guard drake or gnolls for inspiration, or give them short-range damage-dealing auras), so the cleric gets their chance to shine. (The other characters would be struggling in melee combat.)

Of course, this does mean the GM needs to make their own monsters, but there's no problem with that route.

Our group found any of the "explodes at zero HP" undead to be plenty scary, whether alone of in groups.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I like that undead are far less swingy in 4E. Before it was either roll well and stomp the encounter, or roll poorly and get stomped. Think also of the poor rogues, a 20th level rogue could not even sneak attack a level one skeleton. I saw high level rogues totally sit out fights against undead in my 3.5 days.

Add in no crits for fighters, and undead were seriously unfun.

Now, the cleric is still stronger (which clerics should be) against undead, but the rest of the party is not so useless.