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Message: <blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 1559929" data-attributes="member: 10201">Here's the problem: i haven't seen a major label produce *anything* i want in, say, 15yrs. How long do i continue to subsidize them (as opposed to subsidizing the artists directly), while they continue to, as far as i can tell, studiously pass over the artists i want to hear from, because they won't make enough money? So, while i may not steal from them, because they're not producing what i want to hear, i also am not sure i should judge it a loss if others steal from them.I'm not advocating free IP. In fact, i'd argue that IP is too cheap in the current market. I'd gladly pay *more* for my IP, if the money were going to the artists rather than middlemen. Even though that'd mean i'd get less IP, because i'm a long way from flush with cash. I routinely pass up $12 CDs in favor of $20 CDs, in part because those are the ones i want to listen to, but also because i'm buying the $20 CD from the artist and they're getting the bulk of the profits, while the $12 CD is in a record store and the bulk of the profits are going to the producer (at least ,based on what i've heard of retailer profits).Me, i'm one who strongly believes we need to change the distribution system. And i can't completely discount the possibility that the current "downloading wars" may be, either directly or indirectly, an agent in that change. IOW, in the long run, the piracy might do some good.I'm not sure that i'm anti-capitalistic. I know i'm pro-free market. Problem is, i think that large corporations (and, no, i don't know the exact threshhold) are an anti-free market force. I like the idea of people being rewarded for their labors, and know that pure socialism wouln't do this. Problem is, unfettered capitalism, at least as it has shaped up in the US, doesn't do a very good job of this, either. Look at wage trends in the last 30 yrs.I'm not sure about all of that. First, utilities are, IMHO, a very different beast. At least around here, they are heavily regulated gov't-sanctioned oligopolies or monopolies, and, while they may be big in terms of capital or employees, they (1) aren't big by Disney standards and (2) can't behave in the ways that big companies do and that i think are abhorrent. But, you are right, it is unscrupulous behavior that i really have the problem with. Problem is, much of what i consider unscrupulous behavior is mandated for any company, and the bigger it is, the stronger the impetus: putting the stockholders' interests first. My gut reaction is to champion the cooperative model, but someone pointed out to me that it has a different flaw: at least with capitalism, if one company you're invested in fails you don't lose all your money, because you can have stock in other companies; with cooperatism, if the company you're invested in (and most people only work 1 or 2 jobs, so would only be invested in one or two companies) fails, you lose all your money. Still haven't figured out a solution to that dilemma.You got me. It is not a perfectly consistent argument, in the sense that it relies on subjective judgments, often using imperfect information. I do my damnedest to know about the companies that i buy things from, and choose them as much on their ethical record as their quality of product (with price coming in 3rd place, at best). If DiFranco's label started behaving like Sony, i'd probably stop buying from it. And, IME, the simple act of embiggenating has a tendency to change corporations in exactly that way.I don't think there is one--maybe Hasbro. Maybe. I've simply not had to deal with the issue, by choosing not to use pirated PDFs. But i brought it up for a relevant reason: not only to address your "what if everybody did it" argument, but because i think it points up a very relevant difference between RPGs and music. As others in this thread have said in other ways, many arguments that are used to justify pirating music don't apply to RPGs, and, as several in this thread have said, they therefore pirate music but not RPGs.I don't at all disagree that it is illegal and/or immoral. I only disagree on what flavor of wrong act it is. Again, if the actual producer gets full due credit, than i think no crime has been committed. And part of that credit is appropriate recompense. Clearly, if a rival company takes the material and thus gets the contract, the creator hasn't gotten full due credit, even if their name is left on the report.  In this case, it is when the wrong person gets credit that something wrong has been done--whether that is a rival in your company, or a rival company.</blockquote>

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