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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6175659" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I saw this as well.  I've seen tons of staggeringly incorrect assertions as of late.  They go unparried because I think most of us have fatigue, or practiced apathy, at continuously correcting the record on things such as this and are now blunted toward (mal) contentedness with letting erroneous cultural memes proliferate ad infinitum.  Beyond this I've read multiple times of late how all of the 4e classes are the same because of the AEDU framework...neglecting the nature of how stock HPs/surges/proficiencies, the synergy of class features, the nuance of powers, and the backing/force multiplication of feats work in concert to make (for example):- the Fighter manifest as a sturdy, damage-dealing, melee dominator who puts multiple foes where he wants them, keeps them there, imposes his will on enemy target acquisition and punishes enemies if they dare to do something outside of the Fighter's designs.  Uniqueness of powers lies in the synergizing of them with the melee control features of the Fighter class;  attack actions to control/multi-mark/augment damage, minor actions toward deploying stances/combat maneuvers/skirmishing/battlefield control, immediate actions to interpose himself between enemy and ally or to engage a new foe.  Out of combat he can be your typical athletic, street-smart, tough, veteran of a martial existence that contributes to social and exploration encounters as the Fighter always has...and can go far, far further than ever before with feats, utility powers and theme dedicated to other areas.- the Wizard manifest as a squishy, with extreme active defenses and control auras, but mobile opponent who utterly dictates the dynamics of the battlefield from well beyond the reach of the enemy.  Uniqueness of powers lies in the deployment of game-changer Dailies and the art of the minor (and standard) action in sustaining battle-changing zones and summons.  Out of combat he comes standard as your master of the transition scene and can affect the resolution of social, exploration and investigation challenges all extremely effectively (without dominating the game).These two classes aren't even close (certainly not in play but not even on the tin).  Its hard to imagine a vested player of the edition contending as much...an edition warrior, sure...and that happens all too often and it passes without protest these days.  Too many people have written far too many effective, and patently obvious, rejoinders to these non-sequiturs but they continue unabated as if they are plainly true while being observably untrue (as in the "implicitly" example above...which leads inevitably toward traction with the "tactical skirmish game linked by freeform roleplay" dogpile crowd).  It makes it difficult to even care to engage what otherwise is decent enough discussion in a great many threads.I don't agree either and I wonder the same.  How about any collection of the large number of stock Bard features, Utility powers, Bard only rituals and feats that make them social encounter monsters...at Heroic Tier alone?Stock Bard Class Features for Social Encounters:Arcana + 4 trained skills (including all the Cha skills, leveraging a maxed score, and Insight)Bardic Training Skill Versatility (+ 1 all untrained skills)orWords of Friendship (+ 5 Diplomacy which will pretty much always become a lock)Bard Utility Powers for Social Encounters:Bardic LoreInspire CompetenceClockwork PrecisionGlimpse the FutureVeilBard Feats for Social Encounters:Friendly DeceptionBard of All TradesEnvoy to the FeyBardic KnowledgeBard Rituals for Social Encounters:Glib LimerickLullabyCall of FriendshipAnthem of UnityTune of MerrimentChrous of TruthThe Wizard isn't better at solving Social challenges or resolving Social encounters than a stock Bard with no investment beyond their standard features.  Customize the Bard with a Feat and a Utility power and you have a Social challenge behemoth.</blockquote>

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