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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 6863800" data-attributes="member: 6777737">Even if I buy the argument about, "I'm not subtracting, I'm adding a negative number," -- and I don't, but let's pretend I do -- you're actually just exposing how silly THAC0 is because it has an extra, entirely useless step.With d20:1. Player rolls d20.2. Player adds modifiers.3. DM compares result to AC.Player has to know: d20, modifiers.  DM has to know: Target's AC.With THAC0:1. Player rolls d20.2. Player adds modifiers.3. DM adds target's AC to to roll.4. DM compares result to attacker's THAC0.Player has to know: d20, modifiers.  DM has to know: Target's AC, attacker's THAC0.Now instead of doing addition and subtraction, you're doing addition... twice.  (I'm sure you'll never count situational bonuses or penalties twice!)  All your method does is move the THAC0 overhead from the PCs to the DM.  And it looks to me like the DM literally has to do twice as much work, and so is probably at least twice as likely to make a mistake.And you're still stuck with the backwards "lower THAC0/AC is better" nonsense with the accompanying negative numbers.  A bonus to AC still lowers AC.  Moving the math around like above does not fix that.  And of course it doesn't help that PCs don't want to roll and give the DM an arbitrary number, they want to know what AC they actually hit because that's how the game teaches them to understand hitting a target, and this method obscures it.  Yes, I get that it was "intentional" back when the save and combat tables were only listed in the DMG and the players weren't supposed to know them, but I don't think anybody would really argue that was very effective in that role at anything other than pissing off the DM as the players try to calculate AC.At least the PC can determine their own saving throw, but of course in my experience PCs will often subtract when they need to add since, again, lower is paradoxically better and this confuses people.Finally, of course, this isn't how the game teaches you to calculate whether or not you hit.  So, I agree it's a better system, but DMs and players had to figure it out themselves.  In 1e you were told to look it up on a table.  The 2e PHB and the 2e DMG say this (quoting):It's even more arcane.  Now the DM has to know the attacker's THAC0, the target's AC, and it tells you to subtract them.  God help him if he does them in the wrong order.It's no wonder so many DMs just carried <a href="http://i.imgur.com/4XuMflE.jpg" target="_blank">THAC0 wheels</a>.</blockquote>

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