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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6864354" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Well, a &quot;warrior&quot;-type naturally reaches a THAC0 of 1 at level 20, not counting any benefits from magic weapons, weapon proficiency/specialization (which I guess was optional?), or stats. And a THAC0 of 1 is where the problems start--it doesn't even need to be negative, because you cannot roll less than 1 on a die. Even if we assume a modest magic weapon (+2) and a 17 Str (not that unlikely), Warrior types can easily achieve that several levels before cap--and every other bonus ticks it down further (such as the Kensai Fighter kit). Get an exceptional Str, which was hardly exceptional in 2e's heyday as I understand it, and it gets pushed down even further--with sufficient gear and options, it can happen even before the &quot;domain management&quot; phase is supposed to kick in.Negative AC just happens much sooner and more commonly--but it too is a problem.&nbsp; Yes, but now you have the bizarre result that only middle values are bad: you always want to roll high OR low, which means you have even less consistency with how rolling works. Some things you want to roll just low numbers (e.g. &quot;below your Str score&quot;) some things you want to roll high (e.g. damage dice, or healing dice from Cure X Wounds), and other things you want to roll &quot;not middle.&quot; But &quot;the middle&quot; can become excluded! Both ends of that can become muddled and difficult to work with--it is possible for the two conditions to be mutually exclusive, e.g. a defender with AC 0 against an attacker with THAC0 1: according to the rules, every attack is simultaneously a hit (all rolls are greater than or equal to THAC0) and a miss (no rolls are less than or equal to 0), and because AC is 0 it can't be a modifier in either direction.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 6864354, member: 6790260"] Well, a "warrior"-type naturally reaches a THAC0 of 1 at level 20, not counting any benefits from magic weapons, weapon proficiency/specialization (which I guess was optional?), or stats. And a THAC0 of 1 is where the problems start--it doesn't even need to be negative, because you cannot roll less than 1 on a die. Even if we assume a modest magic weapon (+2) and a 17 Str (not [I]that[/I] unlikely), Warrior types can easily achieve that several levels before cap--and every other bonus ticks it down further (such as the Kensai Fighter kit). Get an exceptional Str, which was hardly exceptional in 2e's heyday as I understand it, and it gets pushed down even further--with sufficient gear and options, it can happen even before the "domain management" phase is supposed to kick in. Negative AC just happens much sooner and more commonly--but it too is a problem. Yes, but now you have the bizarre result that only [I]middle[/I] values are bad: you always want to roll high OR low, which means you have [I]even less[/I] consistency with how rolling works. Some things you want to roll just low numbers (e.g. "below your Str score") some things you want to roll high (e.g. damage dice, or healing dice from Cure X Wounds), and other things you want to roll "not middle." But "the middle" can become excluded! Both ends of that can become muddled and difficult to work with--it is possible for the two conditions to be mutually exclusive, e.g. a defender with AC 0 against an attacker with THAC0 1: according to the rules, every attack is simultaneously a hit (all rolls are greater than or equal to THAC0) and a miss (no rolls are less than or equal to 0), and because AC is 0 it can't be a modifier in either direction. [/QUOTE]

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