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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6866179" data-attributes="member: 22779">Couple of thoughts.About the lethality of AD&amp;D.&nbsp; The point is well raised that AD&amp;D manages to remain pretty lethal throughout the game.&nbsp; But, I think the argument misses the point somewhat.&nbsp; The lethality in AD&amp;D comes from (mostly) save or die effects (or things like Dragon breath which are essentially save or die as well).&nbsp; Thing is, this comes down a lot to the DM.&nbsp; A DM that uses lots of snakes and spiders and undead will have a much higher kill ratio than a DM that uses a lot of humanoid monsters.&nbsp; IOW, AD&amp;D maintains lethality by doing an end run around the HP mechanics.&nbsp; It doesn't matter if your character has 10 HP or 100 HP, a failed poison save still kills you.&nbsp; Whether this is a good or bad thing is left up to the reader.&nbsp; But, from 3e onwards, the trend in the game is to focus on the HP mechanics.&nbsp; You don't die from poison in 3e, you take ability damage.&nbsp; In 4e, you took poison damage directly to HP.&nbsp; 5e, generally, just gives you the poisoned condition and that's it.&nbsp; In return for stripping away SoD effects, the monsters have gotten a whole lot scarier though.&nbsp; 3e was brutal for this.&nbsp; A creature, by and large, could do about 10xCR damage in a round.&nbsp; Granted that was max damage and the average was a lot lower, but, even the average damage from a 3e creature was usually considerably higher than the max damage of most AD&amp;D monsters.&nbsp; 4e and 5e have continued this trend. You aren't going to just die in 5e.&nbsp; But, you can die.Thing is in 5e, it's almost impossible to flat out kill a PC.&nbsp; Negative Max HP means that it's extremely difficult for anything to outright kill you.&nbsp; Knock you unconscious?&nbsp; Sure, no problem.&nbsp; But outright kill you?&nbsp; Not likely.&nbsp; So, you have a fair bit of buffer there.&nbsp; One round to knock you down.&nbsp; Probably a round of making a death save (and even if the baddies took a shot at you in the meantime, a successful save still leaves you at 2 death saves) and then someone patches you back up.&nbsp; And all it takes is 1 HP of healing to bring you back to your feet.It's not easy to kill a 5e PC.&nbsp; At least, not after about 30 HP or so.&nbsp; Really, the trick here is to isolate a PC, then he'll die.&nbsp; Swallowed whole works wonders.&nbsp; Any area attacks including fallen PC's makes for added bonuses two.Like a lot of things 5e, it just takes a bit of thinking to up the lethality of the game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6866179, member: 22779"] Couple of thoughts. About the lethality of AD&D. The point is well raised that AD&D manages to remain pretty lethal throughout the game. But, I think the argument misses the point somewhat. The lethality in AD&D comes from (mostly) save or die effects (or things like Dragon breath which are essentially save or die as well). Thing is, this comes down a lot to the DM. A DM that uses lots of snakes and spiders and undead will have a much higher kill ratio than a DM that uses a lot of humanoid monsters. IOW, AD&D maintains lethality by doing an end run around the HP mechanics. It doesn't matter if your character has 10 HP or 100 HP, a failed poison save still kills you. Whether this is a good or bad thing is left up to the reader. But, from 3e onwards, the trend in the game is to focus on the HP mechanics. You don't die from poison in 3e, you take ability damage. In 4e, you took poison damage directly to HP. 5e, generally, just gives you the poisoned condition and that's it. In return for stripping away SoD effects, the monsters have gotten a whole lot scarier though. 3e was brutal for this. A creature, by and large, could do about 10xCR damage in a round. Granted that was max damage and the average was a lot lower, but, even the average damage from a 3e creature was usually considerably higher than the max damage of most AD&D monsters. 4e and 5e have continued this trend. You aren't going to just die in 5e. But, you can die. Thing is in 5e, it's almost impossible to flat out kill a PC. Negative Max HP means that it's extremely difficult for anything to outright kill you. Knock you unconscious? Sure, no problem. But outright kill you? Not likely. So, you have a fair bit of buffer there. One round to knock you down. Probably a round of making a death save (and even if the baddies took a shot at you in the meantime, a successful save still leaves you at 2 death saves) and then someone patches you back up. And all it takes is 1 HP of healing to bring you back to your feet. It's not easy to kill a 5e PC. At least, not after about 30 HP or so. Really, the trick here is to isolate a PC, then he'll die. Swallowed whole works wonders. Any area attacks including fallen PC's makes for added bonuses two. Like a lot of things 5e, it just takes a bit of thinking to up the lethality of the game. [/QUOTE]

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