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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pbartender" data-source="post: 5316687" data-attributes="member: 7533">You're looking at the problem from the wrong point of view.  The problem is not really passive checks, but the simple fundamentals behind how traps have always been placed and been presented.The problem lies in the fact that, as a player, it is difficult to tell when you should or should not be looking for traps.  Historically, traps gets placed in adventures in all sorts of silly, strange places where you wouldn't expect them...  In the middle of a well traveled hallway, for example.  If the players don't know where to reasonably expect to look for traps, they start to look anywhere and everywhere.  And that slows the game down terribly, as the players makes a perception check for every door, chest, closet, cupboard, dead body and five foot square section of floor.Passive checks were implemented, because people kept complaining about that sort of thing.So, there's two things you can do, both of them are more about changing your point of view with regards to traps, how you place tham and how you describe and narrate them, rather than any real rules changes.First, put traps in places that make sense.  The purpose of a trap is to A) ambush an enemy someplace you know the enemy will be, but not when or B) protect something or someplace without having to spend manpower to set a guard.  Also, if you or your allies use the trapped area frequently, the trap should not be deadly, instead aim for traps that warn and alert.Second, when designing traps, consider three categories of traps...  First are those that will always be found by your most perceptive PC (DC less than his passive Perception).  The big challenge of these traps is not finding them, but bypassing them or disabling them before they get triggered. In that sense, treat passive checks as a sort of "Spidey sense" as far as detecting traps goes.  The character notices some small detail that doesn't quite fit the surroundings, which should make the player sit up and take notice. At that point, as long as the player decides to look for something, let them find it automatically -- they've already beat the DC after all. If they ignore the clue, tough luck.  The tension comes from the fact the trap is known, but untriggered.Second, there are those that the best player has some chance of finding (DC greater than passive, but less than Perception+20).  These should always be in places you'd expect to find them...  Chests, at the perimeter of an encampment, the tomb of a ancient and famous king, and so on.  The challenge here is in the finding.  What can be fun here, is having multiple traps of the same type -- a minefield might be a good example.  The characters blunder into the first trap and set it off.  They might suspect there's more, but don't know exactly where.  The tension comes from knowing a trap potentially exists, but it's unfound.Last, there are those are not meant to be found (DC greater than Perception+20).  The challenge here comes from the triggered effect...  Land slides, rooms filling with water, rolling boulders, slowly closing slabs of stone, lowering ceilings, spreading fire, seeping poison gas, etc.  This is a great time for a trap triggered skill challenge, with the dramatic tension coming from the time-sensitive nature of your imminent death.</blockquote>

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