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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 5555097" data-attributes="member: 177">Funny, but I thought that was what you were doing with the, &quot;If the referee feels he needs to put them back on the path, he might as well just hand the module over to the players and let them read it..&quot;&nbsp; You were the one who jumped to an extreme, and excluded any form of middle ground, not me, sirrah.&nbsp; If you tell folks you are running a published adventure or adventure path, the GM is clearly not trying to create that environment.&nbsp; This branch of the discussion started with an explicit statement that the GM should set these expectations.&nbsp; So, I fail to see how your point applies.I am merely saying that mature folks can, in fact, work through the issue if they choose.&nbsp; You said, rather clearly, that rather than work through the issue, the GM should instead dictate the whole to the players. I am talking about what is possible to do, while you seem to be talking about what one *should* do - I am being descriptive and you seem to be proscriptive.&nbsp; [sblock]The GM could satisfy that seeking with a series of prepared, on-the-rails adventures or with sandboxing, or something else.&nbsp; He doesn't specify in that quote what model he used for adventure design.&nbsp; More importantly, it does not say the GM expected that behavior - quite the opposite, it suggests the GM was not prepared for the situation beforehand.&nbsp; He'd only set up the Castle, not a whole huge world-sandbox where the players could choose their course at will.&nbsp; He increased the scope in response to player requests.&nbsp; His initial offering was more limited in scope and choice.&nbsp; All of which is aside another point - that the experiences of the first couple of GMs, with their small (and IIRC, overlapping) player groups, does not speak well to what happens out in the rest of the world.[/sblock]I wrote a bunch of stuff there, and then realized a bit later that it is *all* rather aside the point.Your icon for the golden age, where everyone did the same thing, was also the age when the hobby was smallest, and when the absolute least wisdom and understanding about rpgs had been accumulated.&nbsp; They were clever gents, but there's a lot to gaming that was not discovered or realized until well after their time.&nbsp; Is that really where you want to go for examples?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 5555097, member: 177"] Funny, but I thought that was what you were doing with the, "If the referee feels he needs to put them back on the path, he might as well just hand the module over to the players and let them read it.." You were the one who jumped to an extreme, and excluded any form of middle ground, not me, sirrah. If you tell folks you are running a published adventure or adventure path, the GM is clearly not trying to create that environment. This branch of the discussion started with an explicit statement that the GM should set these expectations. So, I fail to see how your point applies. I am merely saying that mature folks can, in fact, work through the issue if they choose. You said, rather clearly, that rather than work through the issue, the GM should instead dictate the whole to the players. I am talking about what is possible to do, while you seem to be talking about what one *should* do - I am being descriptive and you seem to be proscriptive. [sblock] The GM could satisfy that seeking with a series of prepared, on-the-rails adventures or with sandboxing, or something else. He doesn't specify in that quote what model he used for adventure design. More importantly, it does not say the GM [I]expected[/I] that behavior - quite the opposite, it suggests the GM was not prepared for the situation beforehand. He'd only set up the Castle, not a whole huge world-sandbox where the players could choose their course at will. He increased the scope in response to player requests. His initial offering was more limited in scope and choice. All of which is aside another point - that the experiences of the first couple of GMs, with their small (and IIRC, overlapping) player groups, does not speak well to what happens out in the rest of the world.[/sblock] I wrote a bunch of stuff there, and then realized a bit later that it is *all* rather aside the point. Your icon for the golden age, where everyone did the same thing, was also the age when the hobby was smallest, and when the absolute least wisdom and understanding about rpgs had been accumulated. They were clever gents, but there's a lot to gaming that was not discovered or realized until well after their time. Is that really where you want to go for examples? [/QUOTE]

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