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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7607955" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I tend to think I've written a fairly influential essay on railroading, and at no point did I ever argue that the rules of the system themselves were railroading, nor do I see how that can be sustained. Are you defining any game where their are optimal and suboptimal builds as one that is "railroading"? The 1e AD&D Thief class was entirely suboptimal. Are you suggesting that anyone that played 1e AD&D was a railroading DM because Thief was a suboptimal choice and the GM was somehow deciding that thief skills were not the way to solve problems?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We could all tell that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Aha! I think I've now discovered the crux of the argument. For you this isn't an argument about firearms. This is a proxy argument. What you are really arguing is that you've had bad DMs before that were jerks, and now that you've been burned, you are highly skeptical of anyone who wants to change the rules. And so now you are projecting the motives of your bad DM onto everyone else in the thread. Wonderful, let me solve the argument for you.</p><p></p><p>Your brother sounds like a much better DM than that guy that burned you. I think we'll get widespread agreement on that.</p><p></p><p>However, this is a discussion about how to integrate firearms in the campaign, not that bad DM you had. Your bad experiences are coloring how you see what is being said, and leading you to say some pretty extreme things as absolute truths. No one here is disagreeing with claims like, "The only actions they can control is their characters'. Take away that agency, start dictating how they should be playing, and you've overstepped your bounds as a DM." Heck, I'm in an entirely different thread where I'm the one staunchly defending that principle. But house rules are NOT necessarily attempts to take away player agency, and indeed rarely are. It's not taking away player agency to say, "This world has no firearms." or "This world has modern firearms, that are probably better in a lot of ways than magical weapons" or "This world has firearms that work like this." That's all part of designing the world. Can it be done badly? Sure. But you aren't overstepping your bounds as a GM to decide what sort of firearms you want and how you want them to work.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7607955, member: 4937"] I tend to think I've written a fairly influential essay on railroading, and at no point did I ever argue that the rules of the system themselves were railroading, nor do I see how that can be sustained. Are you defining any game where their are optimal and suboptimal builds as one that is "railroading"? The 1e AD&D Thief class was entirely suboptimal. Are you suggesting that anyone that played 1e AD&D was a railroading DM because Thief was a suboptimal choice and the GM was somehow deciding that thief skills were not the way to solve problems? We could all tell that. Aha! I think I've now discovered the crux of the argument. For you this isn't an argument about firearms. This is a proxy argument. What you are really arguing is that you've had bad DMs before that were jerks, and now that you've been burned, you are highly skeptical of anyone who wants to change the rules. And so now you are projecting the motives of your bad DM onto everyone else in the thread. Wonderful, let me solve the argument for you. Your brother sounds like a much better DM than that guy that burned you. I think we'll get widespread agreement on that. However, this is a discussion about how to integrate firearms in the campaign, not that bad DM you had. Your bad experiences are coloring how you see what is being said, and leading you to say some pretty extreme things as absolute truths. No one here is disagreeing with claims like, "The only actions they can control is their characters'. Take away that agency, start dictating how they should be playing, and you've overstepped your bounds as a DM." Heck, I'm in an entirely different thread where I'm the one staunchly defending that principle. But house rules are NOT necessarily attempts to take away player agency, and indeed rarely are. It's not taking away player agency to say, "This world has no firearms." or "This world has modern firearms, that are probably better in a lot of ways than magical weapons" or "This world has firearms that work like this." That's all part of designing the world. Can it be done badly? Sure. But you aren't overstepping your bounds as a GM to decide what sort of firearms you want and how you want them to work. [/QUOTE]
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