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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 9619449" data-attributes="member: 6716779">For years I have thought fireball is an over rated spells. But Zard you drunken kiwi how dare you say that. The designers even said it's overpowered!!!. 1. They made that comment years ago.2. Most of the other damage dealing spells are D tier.  So why is it C tier? This implies it's situational at best. I'm arguing that's exactly what it is.  Generally fireball is better the more targets it can hit. And they're not fire resistant. And you can do it without nuking the party. Even in Baldurs Gate 3 with bonus action black hole we rarely use it.  The last time it was a good spell was 3.5. I would rate it as B tier there. Remember those broken 3.5 meta builds built around fireball and the warmage? No neither do I. It was B+ in 3.0 and A tier in 2E.  So why is it mediocre most of the time? 5E hit point inflation. Generally 5E critters have double to triple the HP of a 1E to 3.5 monster. Your 8d6 Fireball is the equivalent of a 8th level caster. That in effect deals 3d6 or 4d6 damage and in extreme cases it's 2d6.   Consider a 5E ogre has 59 hit points. A gladiator has 112, a Mage 40. In 5.5 they buffed the mage to 81 hit points.   28 average damage save for half. Let's say you roll exceptionally well 36 damage. Doesn't change the math that much. But bit but what if I hit 10 targets!!! thats 280 damage save for half. In real games how often does that actually happen? In official adventures it's rare to unheard of. Even then it's generally at higher levels. Levels where anything a fireball is actually a threat to will get curb stomped anyway.  This is why damage dealing spells in 5E basically suck without some sort of rider effect outside of specific situations. Even in those situations you may be better off casting something else.   The final nail in the coffin is 5.5 changes to classes. A low level barbarian berzerker hits for 5d6+modifiers in damage. Dual Wielding Rangers and Paladins can pump out the damage. Fighters are just good. Sorcerers get innate sorcery and can pick up hex easily. Spells such as command, tashas hideous laughter, Chromatic Orb got buffed and one can abuse emanations even without cheesing them. More forced movement as well.  All this added up is why I consider fireball is now a C tier spell. The required situations to make it B or A tier are so few and far between   it makes it extremely situational. It's a bit better for the DM and scarier for the players since they mostly have 3E era of hit points or similar to it.  The spell is resting on faded glory and PC fear of getting hit by it often at low level since CR3 and 4 critter can pack it and some CR 2 ones have level 3 spells so a DM special might include it.</blockquote>

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