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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 9741219" data-attributes="member: 6716779">On a real game though that's what is happening.   A fireball auto fail isn't that great vs free crit. The mooks are already failing 70-95% of the time. In previous threads we crunch the numbers out including empower, seeking, and the feat that ignores elemental resistances as it effects COs bounce chance. So does crits.  I also forgot to mention magic initiate feats. Other classes lacking fireball cam pick it up if they want it badly enough.   Why you can't really White room fireball though is you can't reliably claim that it hits XYZ targets. CO basically will. Only 3 opponents use a level 2 one. They've spread out a bit to avoid fireball are they within 30 feet?  CO also doesn't have friendly fire issues which once again limits fireballs effectiveness. And fires one of the worst elements to use as well. Generally fireballs 4+ targets, bit of a waste on 2. 3 is it depends.  Paralyzed is a common enough condition as well espicially with hold monster in the mix. I don't include it in damage calculations.  White room vs real world. PCs will be using zones eg Spirit Guardians they will be using hold spells. Its stuff they are doing anyway. . So many classes have AoE mook clearing abilities. All clerics, druids. Sorcerers, Wizards. Bards kinda (may not be damage). Some Warlocks, Bards.  So fireballs mook killing abilities isn't really needed. And mooks ar these levels using RAW guidelines are going to be CR 2+.  10 CR 2s are only 4500 xp. That's with 5PCs that's not even a low encounter at level 10. You can add a CR 5 or 2 depending on how many mooks you want.  Even if you went to CR 1 or lower and ignore X2 suggestions the mooks are crap and easily cleared outside very oddball party compositions or very inexperienced players who don't have any of the myriad ways to deal with them.</blockquote>

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