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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5330724" data-attributes="member: 87792">No.  You know a creature was a minion because he died in one hit.  After you have explored you know.So change it.  Add in different items.  And I've been in several games with different item identification rules.They pretty much always are in older editions.  Or do you mean that spells were only ever daily powers before 4e?  (As for spell resistance, instead spells miss these days).Uh-uh.  DCs and effects up to the DM.Why do you need to make the players' abilities rather than the world mysterious to them?  Durations are now normally more random than ever (save ends).  And other random variables are normally one shot (hit points) or a part of the world rather than the PCs themselves. Two key words started that sentence.  "By default."  The whole premise of this thread is what do you change.  By changing the treasure allocation, you aren't even houseruling 4e.  You're just moving it off the default setting.Again, this is an easy tweak.  Change the reward metric, as I suggested.  I would also point out that 2e experience points are not gained the same way as 1e experience points; in 2e you gain extra experience points from doing class-ly things.  In 1e you gained three times as much experience from treasure (on average) as from fighting, based on published modules. Yes.  Spell casting with room to do it isn't now as deadly.  And I can't really see how to bring that back (or if I'd want to).  You have a point. And in 4e if I throw 40 Orc Warriors (L9 minions) at a level 9 party, that's probably to be a very nasty fight unless the wizard specialises at this sort of thing.  If it's 37 Orc Warriors, the Chieftain (Level 8 elite Brute), the Champion (Orc Bloodrager - level 7 Elite Brute), and the shaman (an out of his league Eye of Gruumsh) this is going to get extremely messy.And you think terrain isn't vastly important in 4e? They have - and most new solos are a lot better at protecting their actions.  And the way they take down solos like that is by blowing their daily allocation - equivalent to the wizard and cleric burning through their entire spell allocation for the day and leaving just the melee people standing.  That gets through a lot if it can be done. *headdesk*Balance is a tool that gives the DM better information.  Just because the advice says that something is generally the best course of action doesn't mean that a DM needs to DM that way.  The DM simply has a better idea of what will work.Hint: The reason minions get people to blow area powers is because if they do not, they will be overwhelmed.  Minions do more damage for the encounter budget than anything else.  They simply don't survive very long.  You kill the minions fast because you need to.  Otherwise you will be overwhelmed. It's only not compatable if you take the default assumptions and then claim that they are the only way the game can be played.  As the mere existence of Dark Sun demonstrates, they are not.  So simply saying the default methods are not compatable with old school methods adds nothing to the thread unless you are saying why they can't be changed.  Which you are not. And it takes surprisingly few tweaks to change the style of a game.Or strugling for survival in the face of a post apocalyptic nightmare world where every day of water is precious and if you go to town the secret police are going to look harshly on you (Dark Sun).And the rules could never possibly be used for a high fantasy game.  I mean it's not as if it uses the same basic rules as Burning Wheel or anything...Actually, Dogs in the Vineyard works for any high individual conflict game where violence is not necessarily the first resort.Yeah, you got me there - but then I've never really thought about using the Maid rules.  Or even reading them.  On the other hand I know people have used My Life With Master to run such diverse games as Paranoia, a mother in a trailer park with her kids, a mediaeval court, Repo! The Genetic Opera, and someone was planning to use them to run a game of Changeling.  It just takes a little imagination and a very few house rules (if that).</blockquote>

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