Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
First encounter with a 3.5E Beholder as a player
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 6772397" data-attributes="member: 6669384"><p>It all depends on how the DM plays the Beholder. Like any monster, if it's run ineffectively it's hamburger.</p><p></p><p>Anti-magic ray is highly overrated. All it does nothing but suppress spells and items while it's on them. If it's planning to use its other eye effects, it can only target opponents outside of the AM effect, otherwise it shuts down its own attacks.</p><p></p><p>Two Beholders can be even weaker than one, unless they coordinate well. The AM ray of either one blocks pretty much all of the attacks by the other.</p><p></p><p>The Beholder can only use three eyes at a time <em>in any 90 degree arc</em>. That italicized portion is important, and often overlooked. </p><p></p><p>Consider that it can arrange two such arcs so the dividing line splits a party. Now it has six attacks, all as free actions.</p><p></p><p>It's rays are: <em>Charm Monster, Charm Person, Disintegrate, Fear, Finger of Death, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Sleep, Slow</em>, and <em>Telekinesis</em>. We'll save the Anti-Magic ray for later.</p><p></p><p><em>Sleep</em> is useless against any party that will ever face it, but will take out mounts and perhaps Familiars. Otherwise, you might as well forget that that one is even there.</p><p></p><p>Similarly the <em>Inflict</em> ray does weak damage (Its a CR 13. Nobody is scared of 2 D8 +8 with a Save for half at level 10+.) Use that one for Rogues, whose Will Save is relatively weak, and who have D6s for hit dice. Wizard and Sorcerer hit dice are even smaller, but their Will Save is better, so that use is questionable.</p><p></p><p>The two <em>Charm</em> rays should be split: One left and one right. The Save is the same for both (DC 17), so presume that they'll be reserved for obvious Fighter and Rogue types, whose Will Save is poor. He can probably neutralize one opponent in the opening round.</p><p></p><p><em>Finger of Death, Flesh to Stone and Disintegrate</em> are all in the "Save or Die" category. Put one on each side. Since <em>Disintegrate, and Flesh to Stone</em> are Fort saves, life is simple for you if you split one left and one right. These are probably the second eye for each side (with the <em>Charm</em> rays being #1.)</p><p></p><p><em>Telekinesis</em> does more than simple damage. Presume that the Beholder isn't an idiod, nor is it a stranger to its own lair. Since it can use this power to move things, presume that it did, and prepared a few unpleasant places to drop intruders. TK them, hard, against a wall, then drop them into a readied pit. (Two shots with <em>Disintegrate</em> makes a nice 20 foot pit.) Alternately, use the power to TK a number of projectiles at a single target. Check the spell to see how many it can fling, but that can be a nasty use as well. If you're of the inclination, use the power to hold an opponent in mid-air and spin them in place, or hurl them into each other. It's a highly versatile power.</p><p></p><p>Only one side can get <em>Anti-Magic</em> ray, and that's best reserved for the arcane spell casters. Keep them in the Ray and they're just plain shut down until you're ready to deal with them.</p><p></p><p>The third ray on the other side could be <em>Fear</em>, or the leftover of the <em>Finger of death, Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone</em> trio. </p><p></p><p><em>Disintegrate</em> can also be used to create new hiding places for the monster, and even take out support columns or walls and drop ceilings, though that would be a last resort, since that kind of destroys their lair. It can slo be used to destroy the ground beneath a character's feet, dropping them into a 10 foot pit. Minimal damage, but an important first part of "Divide and Conquer". <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>While the book suggests that Beholders will charge right in so they can get opponents on as many sides (and thus subject to as many eye-rays) as possible, their AC is low enough for their level that it's a lot smarter for them to keep opponents at a distance. (AC 26 may not seem low, until you remember that a 10th level Fighter, Barbarian or Ranger type has a BAB of +10, probably a magic weapon for another +2 by 10th level, probably an ability bonus of +3 or higher, and perhaps a feat or two. They'll probably tag him on a 10 or better, and that's before the buffing spells come up.)</p><p></p><p>Also, remember that Beholders can fly, and not just hover at face level. If the room has any kind of ceiling height the Beholder can shut down the melee types cold by staying near the ceiling. The description in the MM specifically says they prefer lairs with a lot of vertical, and like to fight from places that are inaccessible to earthbound opponents.</p><p></p><p>If you run them brain-dead, they're just dead. Run them like they actually know what they're doing and they'll rip your group a new one. and at CR 13, they're supposed to be formidable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 6772397, member: 6669384"] It all depends on how the DM plays the Beholder. Like any monster, if it's run ineffectively it's hamburger. Anti-magic ray is highly overrated. All it does nothing but suppress spells and items while it's on them. If it's planning to use its other eye effects, it can only target opponents outside of the AM effect, otherwise it shuts down its own attacks. Two Beholders can be even weaker than one, unless they coordinate well. The AM ray of either one blocks pretty much all of the attacks by the other. The Beholder can only use three eyes at a time [I]in any 90 degree arc[/I]. That italicized portion is important, and often overlooked. Consider that it can arrange two such arcs so the dividing line splits a party. Now it has six attacks, all as free actions. It's rays are: [I]Charm Monster, Charm Person, Disintegrate, Fear, Finger of Death, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Sleep, Slow[/I], and [I]Telekinesis[/I]. We'll save the Anti-Magic ray for later. [I]Sleep[/I] is useless against any party that will ever face it, but will take out mounts and perhaps Familiars. Otherwise, you might as well forget that that one is even there. Similarly the [I]Inflict[/I] ray does weak damage (Its a CR 13. Nobody is scared of 2 D8 +8 with a Save for half at level 10+.) Use that one for Rogues, whose Will Save is relatively weak, and who have D6s for hit dice. Wizard and Sorcerer hit dice are even smaller, but their Will Save is better, so that use is questionable. The two [I]Charm[/I] rays should be split: One left and one right. The Save is the same for both (DC 17), so presume that they'll be reserved for obvious Fighter and Rogue types, whose Will Save is poor. He can probably neutralize one opponent in the opening round. [I]Finger of Death, Flesh to Stone and Disintegrate[/I] are all in the "Save or Die" category. Put one on each side. Since [I]Disintegrate, and Flesh to Stone[/I] are Fort saves, life is simple for you if you split one left and one right. These are probably the second eye for each side (with the [I]Charm[/I] rays being #1.) [I]Telekinesis[/I] does more than simple damage. Presume that the Beholder isn't an idiod, nor is it a stranger to its own lair. Since it can use this power to move things, presume that it did, and prepared a few unpleasant places to drop intruders. TK them, hard, against a wall, then drop them into a readied pit. (Two shots with [I]Disintegrate[/I] makes a nice 20 foot pit.) Alternately, use the power to TK a number of projectiles at a single target. Check the spell to see how many it can fling, but that can be a nasty use as well. If you're of the inclination, use the power to hold an opponent in mid-air and spin them in place, or hurl them into each other. It's a highly versatile power. Only one side can get [I]Anti-Magic[/I] ray, and that's best reserved for the arcane spell casters. Keep them in the Ray and they're just plain shut down until you're ready to deal with them. The third ray on the other side could be [I]Fear[/I], or the leftover of the [I]Finger of death, Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone[/I] trio. [I]Disintegrate[/I] can also be used to create new hiding places for the monster, and even take out support columns or walls and drop ceilings, though that would be a last resort, since that kind of destroys their lair. It can slo be used to destroy the ground beneath a character's feet, dropping them into a 10 foot pit. Minimal damage, but an important first part of "Divide and Conquer". :) While the book suggests that Beholders will charge right in so they can get opponents on as many sides (and thus subject to as many eye-rays) as possible, their AC is low enough for their level that it's a lot smarter for them to keep opponents at a distance. (AC 26 may not seem low, until you remember that a 10th level Fighter, Barbarian or Ranger type has a BAB of +10, probably a magic weapon for another +2 by 10th level, probably an ability bonus of +3 or higher, and perhaps a feat or two. They'll probably tag him on a 10 or better, and that's before the buffing spells come up.) Also, remember that Beholders can fly, and not just hover at face level. If the room has any kind of ceiling height the Beholder can shut down the melee types cold by staying near the ceiling. The description in the MM specifically says they prefer lairs with a lot of vertical, and like to fight from places that are inaccessible to earthbound opponents. If you run them brain-dead, they're just dead. Run them like they actually know what they're doing and they'll rip your group a new one. and at CR 13, they're supposed to be formidable. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
First encounter with a 3.5E Beholder as a player
Top