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First experience with 5th edition and Lost Mines of Phandelver (no spoilers)
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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 6880041" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya!</p><p></p><p>Like Mr. Furious, I'm in a super amount of pain today, so I'll make it quick...'ish... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>With 5th edition, yes, there is more combat...about 1/3 of any game session is going to be combat. One of the major design goals of 5th was the "Three Pillars of Play". The game design (pretty much everything, from class's, to spells, to skills and rules, etc) was designed with the idea that 1/3 of the game will be Combat, 1/3 of the game will be Roleplaying, and 1/3 of the game will be Puzzles/Problem-Solving. Also, this (and other) "balance" isn't on a MICRO scale, it's on a MACRO scale. You may have two or three sessions of non-stop combat action...followed by two or three sessions of heavy role-play action...followed by two or three sessions of heavy problem-solving...followed by three sessions of everything. A Druid's "power level" is measured against a Bards "power level" is measured against a Fighters "power level"...not on a one-to-one, ability to ability, level to level method. They are all measured looking at the entirety of a campaign as played over several years. "In the end, everything balances out"</p><p></p><p><strong><em><u>PRO TIP:</u></em></strong> When you play 5e next, you should "reverse your thinking" on how tough a combat may be based on what you are encountering. If you are all 4th level and you see a big Ogre...you guys easily have the upper hand. If you all see 12 goblins...be <em>very careful</em>! The way the "math" works in the game has been smoothed out and is refered to as "Bounded Accuracy". Basically, you will not see your characters numbers increase significantly over the course of his/her career. Your Barbarian gets STR Adj +2 to hit now...when you are 20th level, he will have STR Adj +6. That's it. Magic items are not assumed to be part of the equation...nor are Feats (they are OPTIONAL in this edition...but many still think they add to their game...to each their own I guess...). Bottom line, more monsters = more danger...regardless of your level; and, a bunch of goblins, kobold or orcs can easily be a dangerous if not deadly threat to a party of 20th level characters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sounds like he's making rookie mistakes, as expected. The real test is to see if he <em>learns</em> from them... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I touched on this a bit above. Yeah, 5e has "Bounded Accuracy". What this tends to do is make player imagination and creativity at least (more, imho) as important as what's on your character sheet. In stead of a player trying to pour through books and book trying to get a +1 here, or +1 there, the system as done away with MOST of all those little fidgety bits of 3.x/PF. Rules are more "verbally defined" than "modifier defined". You'll find stuff like "<em>This gives the attacker a better chance at surviving such an attack</em>"...you won't find "<em>This gives the attacker a +1 Dodge Bonus to AC (+2 if size Small) to avoid this specific attack</em>". This keeps the BA 'level' and it allows for the individual DM (and players) to decide on just exactly what that may entail. Some DM's may just say "You get Advantage", some may say "You get +1 to AC", and some may be even more detailed than what I wrote. The system is written to be as flexible as possible for the widest range of player and DM styles....with the exception of those who may be deemed "Munchkins/Min-Maxers/PowerGamers". Those types don't seem to like 5e much simply because all the "power to min-max" has, basically, been taken out of their hands and firmly placed in the DM's. Hard to argue <em>"I should get +3 at least to my AC for this"</em> when the DM can look at the rule and say <em>"Uh, it doesn't say anything about AC. I always figured it referred to Dexterity Saves or Athletics or Acrobatics checks..."</em>.</p><p></p><p>Legendary Actions: I'm in the same boat! I think they sound <em>wonderful</em>, from a DM perspective, but none of my players have ever managed to get a character higher than level 6...and we've been playing mostly 5e for about a year and a half now.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Whole campaign?! Dude, you played one session. "One session does not a campaign make". <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> We started with LMoP as well. When everyone died at...er..."a place later on in the adventure" (no spoilers for the <em>green</em> players reading... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ), we had been playing for about 5 months. Once a week, 5 hour sessions. I think everyone was 4th level at that time...the bard in the group may have been 5th, I can't remember.</p><p></p><p>Overall...it's a great little "starter area" for those new to the game. Kinda has a bit of a <em>Keep on the Borderlands</em> type of vibe to it.</p><p></p><p>Healers are not nearly as "needed" for adventuring anymore...at least not 'dedicated' ones. Healing Potions can be bought straight from the PHB. Didn't sit well with us, so I slightly revised them; they are <em>non-magical</em> in my campaign. They are referred to as "Healing Salves/Tinctures/Ointments/Herbs/whatever". They do not detect as magical, and they do "go bad", just like fresh food. Using one will heal HP's, but not the actual 'wounds' (e.g., you will have scars, odd-set bones, etc). There <em>are</em> actual Magical Potions of Healing that, well, are magic and heal "everything" (no scars, perfect set bones, etc), but they are as rare as other magic is. With the way PC's can use HD's to heal after a short rest, and the healers kit and medicine stuff (implied at the very least), healing HP's doesn't take too long. Where it gets dicey is the "middle of combat" type of healing. There...yeah, having a Cure Wounds or Healing Word is a great thing.</p><p></p><p>For Climate and "adventure setting" stuff. Again, 5th edition isn't about the specifics. It's very much what most refer to as a "Rulings, not Rules" game system. If you don't find something in the book...make it up. If something is vague or not making sense...make it up. If something doesn't seem right for you...ignore it and make it up. DM'ing is <em>very much</em> in the same vein as this: if the module doesn't specifically say "This is this", then the DM's job is to...you guessed it...<em>make it up</em>.</p><p></p><p>Neverwinter: "Hmmm...uh, sounds warm I guess. The whole area is in a climate that's like Southern California".</p><p>Neverwinter: "Hmmm...uh, I think it's like 'Greenland'. The whole area is actually just slightly sub-arctic, like the Yukon".</p><p>Neverwinter: "Hmmm...uh, I'm going to say it's a temperate zone, like Oregon or Washington...but can get snow sometimes, but it's never referred to by the locals as 'winter', per se".</p><p></p><p>All perfectly viable and will not affect anything in the adventure in any major way. In fact, the DM making something up "on the fly" is a great way to really make the adventure his/her own. IMHO, of course. So, next time you see your DM struggling with being unable to "find something", tell him not to sweat it. Tell him he is the god of his own campaign, and he can make something up that he finds cool or exciting. (just be prepared for other newbie DM mistakes...like Orcus suddenly showing up in the Inn to yell at the players for killing his goblin followers and such...every DM has to go through this stage...usually it's the first one, and will only last a few months).</p><p></p><p>Key Points To Remember: The -two- three key things I can offer you are these:</p><p></p><p>(1) <em>Stop thinking in 3e terms!</em> (fighting one monster of your level isn't "tough"...fighting 5 monsters below your level <em>is</em>).</p><p></p><p>(2) 5e is <em>not</em> an "updated 3.x". It's a different version of D&D. Let go of your feelings, let the force of 5e flow through you! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>(3) (related to 1) Just because you can't find 'something' in the rules doesn't mean you can't do it...just tell the DM what you want to do and let him figure out how to handle it. You, as a player, don't have to figure out what rules, actions, ability checks or skill rolls you need to make in order to swing on a chandelier, over top of a pissed-off dire-albino-frost-breathing-lizard, to land on the ledge at the far side to flip the lever, dropping the lizard into the pit it's standing on. You just tell you DM that's what you want to do...he figures out all the specifics. So...basically...everything you see in 3.x you can do in 5e...it's just not codified into numerical nomenclature. </p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 6880041, member: 45197"] Hiya! Like Mr. Furious, I'm in a super amount of pain today, so I'll make it quick...'ish... ;) With 5th edition, yes, there is more combat...about 1/3 of any game session is going to be combat. One of the major design goals of 5th was the "Three Pillars of Play". The game design (pretty much everything, from class's, to spells, to skills and rules, etc) was designed with the idea that 1/3 of the game will be Combat, 1/3 of the game will be Roleplaying, and 1/3 of the game will be Puzzles/Problem-Solving. Also, this (and other) "balance" isn't on a MICRO scale, it's on a MACRO scale. You may have two or three sessions of non-stop combat action...followed by two or three sessions of heavy role-play action...followed by two or three sessions of heavy problem-solving...followed by three sessions of everything. A Druid's "power level" is measured against a Bards "power level" is measured against a Fighters "power level"...not on a one-to-one, ability to ability, level to level method. They are all measured looking at the entirety of a campaign as played over several years. "In the end, everything balances out" [B][I][U]PRO TIP:[/U][/I][/B] When you play 5e next, you should "reverse your thinking" on how tough a combat may be based on what you are encountering. If you are all 4th level and you see a big Ogre...you guys easily have the upper hand. If you all see 12 goblins...be [I]very careful[/I]! The way the "math" works in the game has been smoothed out and is refered to as "Bounded Accuracy". Basically, you will not see your characters numbers increase significantly over the course of his/her career. Your Barbarian gets STR Adj +2 to hit now...when you are 20th level, he will have STR Adj +6. That's it. Magic items are not assumed to be part of the equation...nor are Feats (they are OPTIONAL in this edition...but many still think they add to their game...to each their own I guess...). Bottom line, more monsters = more danger...regardless of your level; and, a bunch of goblins, kobold or orcs can easily be a dangerous if not deadly threat to a party of 20th level characters. Sounds like he's making rookie mistakes, as expected. The real test is to see if he [I]learns[/I] from them... :) I touched on this a bit above. Yeah, 5e has "Bounded Accuracy". What this tends to do is make player imagination and creativity at least (more, imho) as important as what's on your character sheet. In stead of a player trying to pour through books and book trying to get a +1 here, or +1 there, the system as done away with MOST of all those little fidgety bits of 3.x/PF. Rules are more "verbally defined" than "modifier defined". You'll find stuff like "[I]This gives the attacker a better chance at surviving such an attack[/I]"...you won't find "[I]This gives the attacker a +1 Dodge Bonus to AC (+2 if size Small) to avoid this specific attack[/I]". This keeps the BA 'level' and it allows for the individual DM (and players) to decide on just exactly what that may entail. Some DM's may just say "You get Advantage", some may say "You get +1 to AC", and some may be even more detailed than what I wrote. The system is written to be as flexible as possible for the widest range of player and DM styles....with the exception of those who may be deemed "Munchkins/Min-Maxers/PowerGamers". Those types don't seem to like 5e much simply because all the "power to min-max" has, basically, been taken out of their hands and firmly placed in the DM's. Hard to argue [I]"I should get +3 at least to my AC for this"[/I] when the DM can look at the rule and say [I]"Uh, it doesn't say anything about AC. I always figured it referred to Dexterity Saves or Athletics or Acrobatics checks..."[/I]. Legendary Actions: I'm in the same boat! I think they sound [I]wonderful[/I], from a DM perspective, but none of my players have ever managed to get a character higher than level 6...and we've been playing mostly 5e for about a year and a half now. Whole campaign?! Dude, you played one session. "One session does not a campaign make". ;) We started with LMoP as well. When everyone died at...er..."a place later on in the adventure" (no spoilers for the [I]green[/I] players reading... ;) ), we had been playing for about 5 months. Once a week, 5 hour sessions. I think everyone was 4th level at that time...the bard in the group may have been 5th, I can't remember. Overall...it's a great little "starter area" for those new to the game. Kinda has a bit of a [I]Keep on the Borderlands[/I] type of vibe to it. Healers are not nearly as "needed" for adventuring anymore...at least not 'dedicated' ones. Healing Potions can be bought straight from the PHB. Didn't sit well with us, so I slightly revised them; they are [I]non-magical[/I] in my campaign. They are referred to as "Healing Salves/Tinctures/Ointments/Herbs/whatever". They do not detect as magical, and they do "go bad", just like fresh food. Using one will heal HP's, but not the actual 'wounds' (e.g., you will have scars, odd-set bones, etc). There [I]are[/I] actual Magical Potions of Healing that, well, are magic and heal "everything" (no scars, perfect set bones, etc), but they are as rare as other magic is. With the way PC's can use HD's to heal after a short rest, and the healers kit and medicine stuff (implied at the very least), healing HP's doesn't take too long. Where it gets dicey is the "middle of combat" type of healing. There...yeah, having a Cure Wounds or Healing Word is a great thing. For Climate and "adventure setting" stuff. Again, 5th edition isn't about the specifics. It's very much what most refer to as a "Rulings, not Rules" game system. If you don't find something in the book...make it up. If something is vague or not making sense...make it up. If something doesn't seem right for you...ignore it and make it up. DM'ing is [I]very much[/I] in the same vein as this: if the module doesn't specifically say "This is this", then the DM's job is to...you guessed it...[I]make it up[/I]. Neverwinter: "Hmmm...uh, sounds warm I guess. The whole area is in a climate that's like Southern California". Neverwinter: "Hmmm...uh, I think it's like 'Greenland'. The whole area is actually just slightly sub-arctic, like the Yukon". Neverwinter: "Hmmm...uh, I'm going to say it's a temperate zone, like Oregon or Washington...but can get snow sometimes, but it's never referred to by the locals as 'winter', per se". All perfectly viable and will not affect anything in the adventure in any major way. In fact, the DM making something up "on the fly" is a great way to really make the adventure his/her own. IMHO, of course. So, next time you see your DM struggling with being unable to "find something", tell him not to sweat it. Tell him he is the god of his own campaign, and he can make something up that he finds cool or exciting. (just be prepared for other newbie DM mistakes...like Orcus suddenly showing up in the Inn to yell at the players for killing his goblin followers and such...every DM has to go through this stage...usually it's the first one, and will only last a few months). Key Points To Remember: The -two- three key things I can offer you are these: (1) [I]Stop thinking in 3e terms![/I] (fighting one monster of your level isn't "tough"...fighting 5 monsters below your level [I]is[/I]). (2) 5e is [I]not[/I] an "updated 3.x". It's a different version of D&D. Let go of your feelings, let the force of 5e flow through you! ;) (3) (related to 1) Just because you can't find 'something' in the rules doesn't mean you can't do it...just tell the DM what you want to do and let him figure out how to handle it. You, as a player, don't have to figure out what rules, actions, ability checks or skill rolls you need to make in order to swing on a chandelier, over top of a pissed-off dire-albino-frost-breathing-lizard, to land on the ledge at the far side to flip the lever, dropping the lizard into the pit it's standing on. You just tell you DM that's what you want to do...he figures out all the specifics. So...basically...everything you see in 3.x you can do in 5e...it's just not codified into numerical nomenclature. ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
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