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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6886381" data-attributes="member: 6677017">But see, that's the point I'm making is that you aren't seeing the way it was designed to be different because you are looking at it as 3e with missing parts. Since my just saying that doesn't provide any information, let me give you some examples of where 5e intentionally did things different in an attempt to hit a different goal.Fewer but Bigger Bonuses. In 3e you tended to get small features that made it more likely you could accomplish certain things. 5e ripped most of those out. Instead of incremental increases to likelihood of accomplishing things usually they just gave you advantage. For example, let's take a dwarf's miscellaneous bonuses (all quotes are from the respective SRDs):3e"Stability: A dwarf gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).+2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison.+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids.+4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type. Any time a creature loses its Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class, such as when it’s caught flat-footed, it loses its dodge bonus, too.+2 racial bonus on Appraise checks that are related to stone or metal items.+2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal."5e"Dwarven Resilience. You have advantage on saving throws against poison, and you have resistance against poison damage.Tool Proficiency. You gain proficiency with the artisan’s tools of your choice: smith’s tools, brewer’ssupplies, or mason’s tools. Stonecunning. Whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to the origin of stonework, you are considered proficient in the History skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check, instead of your normal proficiency bonus."I think we would both agree that neither is better, it's just a matter of preference. But I think it represents a different design philosophy, not just gutting details. For instance, I see it as more flavorful this way. But this particular point has been discussed by others for pages, so I want to move on to others.Impactful Features. Related but distinct from the previous element, 5e tends to make each feature it gave count and count big. Usually, they straight up let you do something you otherwise can't do at all--and frequently something that no one else in the game (or almost no one else) can do.Let's take another race as an example, halflings. Here are a relevant subset of features:3e+2 racial bonus on Climb, Jump, and Move Silently checks.+1 racial bonus on all saving throws.5e:Halfling Nimbleness. You can move through the space of any creature that is of a size larger than yours.increases by 1.Naturally Stealthy. You can attempt to hide even when you are obscured only by a creature that is at least one size larger than you.Lucky. When you roll a 1 on the d20 for an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll.Examples of class features include:Evasion. 5e Evasion in 3e's Improved Evasion.Extra Attacks. Instead of decreasing attack bonuses for additional attacks, Extra Attacks are at full bonus. And you can split up your move however you want between, before, and after those attacks, with no need to take a Full Attack action with limited movement to use them.Defensive Roll. All rogues get the equivalent of this at 5th level, but it always works and is usable once per round.Cantrips. They are cool, and you can cast them atwill rather than messing with 0th-level spell slots. (Some people, myself included, would have liked a bit of an adjustment to how this works, but I never claimed the system was perfect. They are impactful.)Uber Feats. 5e feats aren't the same as 3e feats. In fact, the conversion guidelines document has this to say about them: "In the conversion process, feats from third and fourth edition should usually be ignored, because feats in fifth edition have a very different place in the game than the feats did in those two editions. Feats in fifth edition can make a character concept come to life outside the race and class structures. Give the fifth edition feats a look if you feel your character lacks a needed aspect after you convert race and class." If I might add a note, a 5e feat is worth about three 3e feats, or sometimes even a couple epic level 3e feats.Intentionally Highlighted Complexity. For a place where complexity was actually added, look no further than the delightful Battle Master Fighter sub-class. It gets a whole set of maneuvers that work well. And all fighters are upgraded with cool features like Second Wind and Action Surge. And just in case you want even more customization for you fighter, then get 7 feats compared to most other classes 5. 5e fighter makes 3e fighter look like 3e warrior NPC class.Actions that Actually Work. In 3e, if you wanted to grapple you had to risk an opportunity attack. Then, assuming you weren't hit, you had to make a touch attack roll. Then assuming that hit, you had to make an opposed check. And even if you took the feat, it only eliminated the opportunity attack and gave you a +4. In 5e, you just make a single opposed check, no penalty. Same goes with tripping and bull rushing in 5e. Non-specialized characters actually use these interesting and dynamic options in 5e, because they can actually succeed. And if you want to be even better at them, Battle Masters and Monks have the ability to piggy-back improved versions of those sorts of thing on top of a fully damaging attack.Not fixing flaws is a reasonable criticism. However, this was also intentional. The designers play games other than D&D. They are well aware of remnants of 70s and 80s design that were abandoned by most other RPGs. They kept them intentionally for purposes of attracting players of prior editions who wanted to play something that felt like D&D rather than a new game with the D&D label slapped on it. Although this is a reasonable criticism of preference of 5e, I'm not sure it is a relevant comparison with 3e.Hopefully I've given you some examples of how it is intended to play differently than 3e, rather than to be a simplified version of it. (It is, in general, intended to be simpler version of D&D, but not a simpler version of 3e.)Yep, if I didn't already have a bunch of information about that region of the Forgotten Realms I would have been in continuity trouble when the party decided to go to Neverwinter to find a cleric to consult with.</blockquote>

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