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General Tabletop Discussion
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First experience with 5th edition and Lost Mines of Phandelver (no spoilers)
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6887440" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>What I mean is that 5E is a vast improvement over previous editions in several crucial areas. </p><p></p><p>Let me just give a few short examples that are true for me: </p><p>- vs 3E spellcasting (the buff game is gone; quadratic wizard power is reduced; etc) </p><p>- vs 4E the wonder in magic items is back</p><p>- vs 3E building npcs is vastly simplified (doesn't have to build "PC NPCs", doesn't have to give NPCs loot to make them function)</p><p></p><p>So why you would want to play 5E is clear. </p><p></p><p>Now, there are areas where you or somebody else might feel 5E went in the wrong direction, or scaled back on previous ambition levels to a disappointing degree. And now I don't mean things that arguably contribute to the core of the edition's success. </p><p></p><p>Because if you take something like the "I want NPCs to follow the exact same rules as PCs" argument, that was a dealbreaker for me in 3E, and something I am convinced would have lessened 5Es success considerably. </p><p></p><p>No, instead I mean things that can be argued would not have significantly impacted 5E's success. But still happened.</p><p></p><p>Examples of this include: </p><p>- the almost naive way certain monsters are designed. Especially higher-CR monsters are prone to be caught "with their pants down", meaning that they are susceptible to trivial* (almost abusive) combos.</p><p>*) Well, trivial to any high level player worth her salt, anyway. Obviously not at all something clueless designers could come up with</p><p>- the way magic item creation was a baby thrown out with the bathwater. I don't mean 3E:ish rules need be part of the core rules (i.e. be present in the DMG). I mean that they still haven't offered anything else than the hilariously broken and completely insane rarity system even as an UA option.</p><p>- the very cautious approach to splat books. I can completely understand the reluctance to commit before success was assured, but now? Many players want more crunch to their character building.</p><p></p><p>In short, for 5E they made a lot of changes. Most of them are good. Most of them contribute directly to 5E's success. But not all of them.</p><p></p><p>(By the way those three examples aren't things I put equal weight to myself. I mostly just brought up things I've seen forumists having trouble with, filtered by what I think are changes that directly contributed to 5E's success, and therefore aren't worth trying to reverse. Myself, I'd say weak monsters are of medium concern, item creation of high concern and little crunch of low concern) </p><p></p><p>They made at least some choices that can't be explained (or at least excused) by the overarching need to make 5E a success.</p><p></p><p>For the purpose of this thread, I strongly react to the "advice" that if I don't like something with 5E I should go back to playing 3E or PF. That's rude, that's dismissive. </p><p></p><p>I want to use 5E. I just want a few key areas to get better support.</p><p></p><p>I definitely will not go back to the wreckage that is d20. So I need WotC to step up their support for these key areas.</p><p></p><p>I hope this gives you your answer, Sword...?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 6887440, member: 12731"] What I mean is that 5E is a vast improvement over previous editions in several crucial areas. Let me just give a few short examples that are true for me: - vs 3E spellcasting (the buff game is gone; quadratic wizard power is reduced; etc) - vs 4E the wonder in magic items is back - vs 3E building npcs is vastly simplified (doesn't have to build "PC NPCs", doesn't have to give NPCs loot to make them function) So why you would want to play 5E is clear. Now, there are areas where you or somebody else might feel 5E went in the wrong direction, or scaled back on previous ambition levels to a disappointing degree. And now I don't mean things that arguably contribute to the core of the edition's success. Because if you take something like the "I want NPCs to follow the exact same rules as PCs" argument, that was a dealbreaker for me in 3E, and something I am convinced would have lessened 5Es success considerably. No, instead I mean things that can be argued would not have significantly impacted 5E's success. But still happened. Examples of this include: - the almost naive way certain monsters are designed. Especially higher-CR monsters are prone to be caught "with their pants down", meaning that they are susceptible to trivial* (almost abusive) combos. *) Well, trivial to any high level player worth her salt, anyway. Obviously not at all something clueless designers could come up with - the way magic item creation was a baby thrown out with the bathwater. I don't mean 3E:ish rules need be part of the core rules (i.e. be present in the DMG). I mean that they still haven't offered anything else than the hilariously broken and completely insane rarity system even as an UA option. - the very cautious approach to splat books. I can completely understand the reluctance to commit before success was assured, but now? Many players want more crunch to their character building. In short, for 5E they made a lot of changes. Most of them are good. Most of them contribute directly to 5E's success. But not all of them. (By the way those three examples aren't things I put equal weight to myself. I mostly just brought up things I've seen forumists having trouble with, filtered by what I think are changes that directly contributed to 5E's success, and therefore aren't worth trying to reverse. Myself, I'd say weak monsters are of medium concern, item creation of high concern and little crunch of low concern) They made at least some choices that can't be explained (or at least excused) by the overarching need to make 5E a success. For the purpose of this thread, I strongly react to the "advice" that if I don't like something with 5E I should go back to playing 3E or PF. That's rude, that's dismissive. I want to use 5E. I just want a few key areas to get better support. I definitely will not go back to the wreckage that is d20. So I need WotC to step up their support for these key areas. I hope this gives you your answer, Sword...? [/QUOTE]
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