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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Flipguarder" data-source="post: 4104893" data-attributes="member: 61430">At this point, even if I wanted to change the prison setup, I probably wouldn't. It works too well with the plot. Just because something is overused, doesn't make it unuseful. Only the nerdiest of nerds would complain about that imho.The first ten levels (aka 30 sessions) will be spent dealing with just that. As epic as I came off, the epicness doesn't come into play until level 11 at the earliest, based on my "plan"They meet one god at level 11. they don't even know what the artifact is until then. they will probably meet one more god at level 18 or so, after that they'll be epic and it's more understandable.noobguarder doesn't understand the difference.said in love not in anger#1 artifact does nothing save preventing insanity for pcs (it does more, but only for dieties)#2 they don't even KNOW what it really is until paragon tier#3 the idea for a plot device being overused only matters for people who have played more than 4 or 5 campaigns. plus my players wont care. We're being railroaded all over the place. still having fun.#4 "the plot I want them to follow" it seems as dm I make the plot. If not... more on this later#5 its one item. Also Im giving them a "book of lies" but that is more just for fun role-playing than useful for anything.I LOVE this idea,thank you SO much.Well, one of my requirements for the Characters is good or good-bent at the least, no evil or evil wanna-besBut say some jackass player decides they wanna change alignment or the whole group does mid-campaign.that would mean that they wish for the destruction of the multiiverse. But I would let them. they would just switch sides and give the artifact to pandorym. probably fighting bahumet or some other god at endgame. Id also have to change some instances *tee-hee*This is what I see happening without some sort of plot device like the cube (Which everyone seems to be against at this point.)Me: You guys are in a city, what do you wanna do.P: go to the barMe: ok you guys go the barbar room stuff, nothing exiciting happens.me: What do you want to do now.p: go to another town?Without a plot its just these guys going into other races homes (aka dungeons) and wreckin up the place for no reason.I understand you aren't against plot, but this is what I've heardcube=badsome one telling them what to do=badforcing the characters to be together in the beginning=badI think it would be more railroading if I said that "trolls are attacking the village you are in, do you wanna kill them?" I don't want to give them a situation where I KNOW what they're gonna do. I want to give them a world, a mystery, and a problem. Then just let them loose on it. I would feel more forced if I was in a situation like this "your mom is missing, *gather information check of some sort* people are saying that she left town, abandoned her home and went to that ominous castle over there"I feel like I have three choices1. no forced interaction with any NPCS, no mysterious item, characters just meet and fight some random enemy. afterwards they go "what now?" rinse, repeat, ergo no plot.2. my plan, or some other involving mystery and a series of clues and tips to follow the rabbit trail.3. some series of obvious and insipid plots involving random dangers to the values/persons/or loved ones of the PCs using character emotion to railroad instead of world circumstances. If I want a cohesive long-term plot, I think I have to introduce the right npcs, lay the right crumbs not just let the characters explore the world killing bad guys willy-nilly without solving any real problems.dm: hey guys, go to that castle.group: uhh... why?dm: YOU DARE QUESTION THE DUNGEON MASTER!!!!!!group: yes.. yes we do.dm: there's just a princess or something in there. you wanna save her right?group: *gets up and repeatedly crotch-kicks dm" -or-dm:hey redgar, your mom, who you love more than anything, has been captured by mind-flayers, who will kill her than eat her brain. They are in that castle over there.Redgar: I wanna go to the castle.dm: Damn straight, fish. -or- my planDm: you guys find this cube, it seems to exude happinessplayers: what does it dodm: thats the question isn't it, where do you guys wanna goplayers: where can we go?dm: the cardinal directions are north south east and west, but I allow variations.players: wheres the nearest town.dm: *knowledge local check of some sort succeeds and I reply instantly because I have all geography mapped out* a port city called strom is to the s-se about 2 days walkI don't mean to get heated, but one of my pet peeves is when someone offers a problem without any solution. I really do appreciate all this, and I make too many jokesFinal question, is it possible to create a fun, epic-story game, that includes a cohesive plot throughout the campaign with few side-quests? because bottom line, thats what I wanna do.*hugs Lackhand*thanks everyone.</blockquote>

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