Fist of the Forest and Monk

[thedeadpoet86]

Does Fist of the Forest AC bonus from Con stack with Monk AC bonus from Wis?

 

[Dandu]

The description of the FotF AC bonus refers you to the Monk's class feature in the PHB. If it is the same type of bonus it might not stack. The Ninja's bonus to AC and the Swordsage's bonus to AC do not stack with each other or the Monk's AC bonus.

 

[Marius Delphus]

Based on the sample character in Complete Champion, who has a bonus to AC both from CON and from WIS, yes, it does.

I'm not sure I'm okay with that, though. Because it's the same class ability, if I were DM, I'd be tempted to rule that the "key ability" for that class ability simply changes to CON when a character takes the prestige class.

 

[Dandu]

Based on the sample character in Complete Champion, who has a bonus to AC both from CON and from WIS, yes, it does.

WotC sample characters are notoriously shoddy. I can name examples.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The only reason swordsage AC doesn't stack with monk AC is because one requires light armor and the other requires no armor, by RAW. I'm not generally a fan of the same stat to AC twice anyway, though. Don't really mind multiple different stats to AC, since MAD tends to hurt.

Based on the sample character in Complete Champion, who has a bonus to AC both from CON and from WIS, yes, it does.

I'm not sure I'm okay with that, though. Because it's the same class ability, if I were DM, I'd be tempted to rule that the "key ability" for that class ability simply changes to CON when a character takes the prestige class.

Why? Even with con and wis to AC, monk's the inferior method of entry (Dandu's "being bane" guide covers the ideal routes). It's a prestige class clearly intended to be for monks (among others) and nowhere does it say that if you already have wisdom to AC that the con to AC replaces it if better. Its silly to assume that, unless you think it's overpowered and are just looking for an excuse not to allow it. And if you think monk/ANYTHING is overpowered... ....I should just not comment.

 

[Dandu]

The only reason swordsage AC doesn't stack with monk AC is because one requires light armor and the other requires no armor, by RAW.

Right. I was thinking of the FAQ answer where it said they don't because they're the same named bonus, which forgets to mention that the means of obtaining both bonuses are mutually exclusive.

 

[Marius Delphus]

Why?

Because I'm wary of piling three attribute bonuses onto AC. If it's demonstrably not a problem, then it's demonstrably not a problem, and I'm perfectly okay with the idea that my wariness may be unwarranted. It's just a gut feeling.

And if you think monk/ANYTHING is overpowered... ....I should just not comment.

I didn't say I think anything of the sort. But I understand you feel strongly about it.

 

[Dandu]

Because I'm wary of piling three attribute bonuses onto AC. If it's demonstrably not a problem, then it's demonstrably not a problem, and I'm perfectly okay with the idea that my wariness may be unwarranted. It's just a gut feeling.

In core, a Monk/Rogue/Duelist would have Dex, Int, and Wis to AC, along with other bonuses from the Duelist class.

It also happens to be a very weak build because you cannot contribute to the fight other than by standing around unable to be hit.

 

[Marius Delphus]

Monk/Rogue/Duelist would have Dex, Int, and Wis to AC, along with other bonuses from the Duelist class.

It also happens to be a very weak build because you cannot contribute to the fight other than by standing around unable to be hit.

And you're also pretty much limited to wielding daggers all the time to take advantage of all your different class abilities, it seems to me.

But it's a good point, and I certainly accept it as evidence I might be overreacting.

 

[TanisFrey]

In core, a Monk/Rogue/Duelist would have Dex, Int, and Wis to AC, along with other bonuses from the Duelist class.

It also happens to be a very weak build because you cannot contribute to the fight other than by standing around unable to be hit.

When you use point buy, getting more than 2 stats to AC tends to dilute the value of these stacking bonuses at low levels until you start to find/buy stat bonus items.