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<blockquote data-quote="Dark Mistress" data-source="post: 5971264" data-attributes="member: 11816"><p>Let me first say I am not saying the 15min adventuring day is not a problem for some people. It has never really been a problem for me and my group though. Fairly recently I got involved with a second group and i was running. The group was 6 players, 2 that was vets to my old group as well and was use to how we played and 4 new people. The new players where all experienced players but I found out later the games they had played in there was never any downside to resting. If they stopped mid dungeon and went and rested when they came back the monster in the 2nd room was still there waiting for them just like it would have been had the opened the door before they rested. After a few adventures they told me that is what they was use to.</p><p></p><p>This is the story of how things went, we was using PFRPG.</p><p></p><p>First adventure the part is after McGruffin in a old temple. A goblin tribe had moved in and found undead. they closed the undead off in rooms or sections of the old temple and lived in the rest of it. The party manages to clear the first level, the cleric uses many of his channelings to hurt undead instead of heal the party(using it when no one was hurt but there was undead around), the wizard burns through his spells very quickly as well. By the time the first level is clear they was out of spells and the melee's where getting low on HP. So they leave the temple and go to a old hunting lodge they found a few hours away as a safe place to securely camp and rest.</p><p></p><p>The goblins who had a alarmed sounded had a ambushed set up at the entrance to the 2nd level. They waited and waited and when no one came they sent up scouts. The found all their dead kin and then found all the dead undead. They had been unable to defeat the undead and had been forced to trap them. Now the goblins are scared of the things that killed everything and afraid they will come back. So the goblins gather what they can carry and run away to find a new home.</p><p></p><p>The party comes back the next day finds most of the second level empty and easily after only a couple of encounters find and get the McGruffin. After the adventure we talked and some of the players asked where the goblins went(they was wanting the xp and treasure from them) I explained what happened and that the goblins left. They seem dumbfounded, they agreed it made sense and in the goblins place they would have done it too, but had said no GM had ever done that with them before.</p><p></p><p>Second adventure, while staying in town orcs and a wizard raid it in the middle of the night stealing something from the church. The party tries to track them and fails at night so has to wait till first light. They track them back to a old fort, they try to sneak in and make it a ways before the alarm is sounded. They still manage to clear out the fort and the renforcement group that came up. So then they head down into the dungeon under it where the other orcs came from. But can only go a short way due to burning off of spells and healing rapidly.(like the cleric burning a channeling to heal when only one person is hurt instead of saving it till when more people was hurt etc)</p><p></p><p>So they retreat back to town only a few hours away and camp. The next day they go back find the orcs had set up some traps, barricades etc. The wizard had cast alarm at the entrance to the dungeon and when the party came back the wizard knew and informed the orcs. So they had to fight the orcs in prepared defenses and in larger numbers per fight, since the orcs knew they was coming. The clear out a lot but not all and are forced to retreat back to town again.</p><p></p><p>The next day they go back wipe out the last of the orcs but the wizard is no where to be found or the item from the local church. When a orc prisoner is questioned he informs them the wizard completed the ritual with the item the second night and then left, leaving the orcs to twist in the wind.</p><p></p><p>The party enjoyed both adventures and that the NPC's reacted to what they did, since that time the casters have been a lot more careful with using magic and only use the least amount they think they need to to win the fight. The cleric melee's more and the wizard uses low level scrolls he scribes and cantrips more. Now they with smart resource management press on a lot further in adventures often completing them with out resting.</p><p></p><p>I have found running like that and players avoid novaing like the plague unless they think they are about to die. To me the key is just running a living breathing world. In the first case getting their goal turned out to be easier, sure they missed out on some xp and treasure. The second case they ended up failing. The first had no time restriction on it, just Goblins that reacted and the second had a time restriction.</p><p></p><p>Now I am not saying this always works and it is a magic fix cause it's not. I still see the occasionally 15 min adventuring day, but they are pretty rare cause the players and their characters try to avoid them when possible.</p><p></p><p>Anyways just taking part in the conversation and sharing my own personal experiences and nothing more.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dark Mistress, post: 5971264, member: 11816"] Let me first say I am not saying the 15min adventuring day is not a problem for some people. It has never really been a problem for me and my group though. Fairly recently I got involved with a second group and i was running. The group was 6 players, 2 that was vets to my old group as well and was use to how we played and 4 new people. The new players where all experienced players but I found out later the games they had played in there was never any downside to resting. If they stopped mid dungeon and went and rested when they came back the monster in the 2nd room was still there waiting for them just like it would have been had the opened the door before they rested. After a few adventures they told me that is what they was use to. This is the story of how things went, we was using PFRPG. First adventure the part is after McGruffin in a old temple. A goblin tribe had moved in and found undead. they closed the undead off in rooms or sections of the old temple and lived in the rest of it. The party manages to clear the first level, the cleric uses many of his channelings to hurt undead instead of heal the party(using it when no one was hurt but there was undead around), the wizard burns through his spells very quickly as well. By the time the first level is clear they was out of spells and the melee's where getting low on HP. So they leave the temple and go to a old hunting lodge they found a few hours away as a safe place to securely camp and rest. The goblins who had a alarmed sounded had a ambushed set up at the entrance to the 2nd level. They waited and waited and when no one came they sent up scouts. The found all their dead kin and then found all the dead undead. They had been unable to defeat the undead and had been forced to trap them. Now the goblins are scared of the things that killed everything and afraid they will come back. So the goblins gather what they can carry and run away to find a new home. The party comes back the next day finds most of the second level empty and easily after only a couple of encounters find and get the McGruffin. After the adventure we talked and some of the players asked where the goblins went(they was wanting the xp and treasure from them) I explained what happened and that the goblins left. They seem dumbfounded, they agreed it made sense and in the goblins place they would have done it too, but had said no GM had ever done that with them before. Second adventure, while staying in town orcs and a wizard raid it in the middle of the night stealing something from the church. The party tries to track them and fails at night so has to wait till first light. They track them back to a old fort, they try to sneak in and make it a ways before the alarm is sounded. They still manage to clear out the fort and the renforcement group that came up. So then they head down into the dungeon under it where the other orcs came from. But can only go a short way due to burning off of spells and healing rapidly.(like the cleric burning a channeling to heal when only one person is hurt instead of saving it till when more people was hurt etc) So they retreat back to town only a few hours away and camp. The next day they go back find the orcs had set up some traps, barricades etc. The wizard had cast alarm at the entrance to the dungeon and when the party came back the wizard knew and informed the orcs. So they had to fight the orcs in prepared defenses and in larger numbers per fight, since the orcs knew they was coming. The clear out a lot but not all and are forced to retreat back to town again. The next day they go back wipe out the last of the orcs but the wizard is no where to be found or the item from the local church. When a orc prisoner is questioned he informs them the wizard completed the ritual with the item the second night and then left, leaving the orcs to twist in the wind. The party enjoyed both adventures and that the NPC's reacted to what they did, since that time the casters have been a lot more careful with using magic and only use the least amount they think they need to to win the fight. The cleric melee's more and the wizard uses low level scrolls he scribes and cantrips more. Now they with smart resource management press on a lot further in adventures often completing them with out resting. I have found running like that and players avoid novaing like the plague unless they think they are about to die. To me the key is just running a living breathing world. In the first case getting their goal turned out to be easier, sure they missed out on some xp and treasure. The second case they ended up failing. The first had no time restriction on it, just Goblins that reacted and the second had a time restriction. Now I am not saying this always works and it is a magic fix cause it's not. I still see the occasionally 15 min adventuring day, but they are pretty rare cause the players and their characters try to avoid them when possible. Anyways just taking part in the conversation and sharing my own personal experiences and nothing more. [/QUOTE]
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