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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Alaxk Knight of Galt" data-source="post: 5899239" data-attributes="member: 4129">I agree.  If you got rid of scribe scroll / make wand or made knock / invisibility cost extra, you have gone a long way to fixing the problem.  You probably don't need both.In fact, while I think all five suggestions could be implemented and leave a very powerful wizard, I don't think it's necessary to implement all of them.  Here was what each one was intended to address.1.  Reduce Spell Slots:  This is to keep a wizard for stocking up on spells to counter every contingency.  A wizard should be about planning, but that planning should also be a weakness when something unexpected is encounter.  By reducing the spell slots, you leave the wizard powerful if well prepared but weak to surprises and unexpected situation (or forced into using their existing spells in unusual or creative ways).2.  No Player Created Magic Items:  Simply put, this was to stop wizards from having a virtually infinite spell list.  Wands and Scrolls allowed for a wizard to be able to cast his entire spell book at a whim.  Rarely used spells were placed on scrolls, commonly used spells placed into wands.  This has to be eliminated or vastly reigned.The problem isn't player made items, it's the cost to use such player made items.I see solutions.  If this was 4th, you could charge a Healing Surge to use such an item.  In 3rd, it could require expending an unused spell slot of the appropriate level.  3. Remove Unlimited Spell Access and Learning:  This is yet another attempt to reign in the unlimited flexibility of a wizard.  Earlier editions limited how many spells per level a wizard could have in their spell book.  This forced a wizard to manage his spell list, giving each selection an opportunity cost.  I don't think going back to limiting the max spells per level is correct (this steps too much into the Sorcerer's spell selection method).Instead, by making learning new spells difficult, you can keep a wizard's spell book from inflating to include all spells ever produced for that edition (which I believe to be a noble goal).  Perhaps the first spell he learns when he levels is free and each additional spell requires an increasingly difficult check (I dislike this because of the book keeping involved).  An unlimited spell book isn't a problem however if options 1 and 2 are implemented properly.  Let the wizard know every spell, he'll only have access to a few of them each day.4. Additional Cost for Class Stealing Spells:  Again, this isn't as big of a concern if options 1 and 2 are followed.  Or if you limited what spells a wizard takes each level (Knock isn't going to be high on the list).  If you keep 4 spell slots per level and cheaply produced scrolls and wands, you absolutely have to limit the power of spells like Knock by adding additional cost to them.  A wand of knock vastly reduces the non-combat usefulness of a rogue.  5. Make Combat Casting Difficult:  If a wizard was just about casting damage spells, I don't think this would be required.  Damage can be healed with ease in combat.  An illusion spell is far more devastating (in the hands of a creative player) then magic missile or lightning bolt.  Combat Casting shouldn't be impossible, but it shouldn't be as easy as it was in 3rd.  A Ranger readying an action to shoot the wizard should negate the wizard, but it should make casting spells difficult.  The class can't be a living god on the battlefield.  Common tactics (such as get the wizard) should be effective against him.  A single enemy harassing the wizard should make it difficult or costly for him to cast spells.Regardless, I'm enjoying seeing the responses and ideas in the thread <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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