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<blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 5899857" data-attributes="member: 413">I think you misunderstand me.&nbsp; We're in agreement.&nbsp; The wizard can outshine the rogue (or the fighter, or the paladin, or the cleric except for healing), but in a very limited capacity.&nbsp; The rogue can make endless stealth (or Move Silently/Hide) checks.&nbsp; The Wizard can only cast invisibility so many times (if he even has it prepared).And it isn't just Rogues...what about Fighters.&nbsp; The fighter is supposed to be the one that consistently deals AND absorbs the most damage...then along comes the wizard with Stone Skill, Resist Elements, Displacement, Haste, Mirror Image and lays down some Evard's Black Tentacles to make the fighter look feeble.&nbsp; But again...he can only do this a limited number of times.In a 2e game a long time ago I was DMing, the party was being attacked by a Green Dragon...the only one who could really hurt it was the wizard.&nbsp; So the dragon breathed on him, then landed on him...squish.&nbsp; I made saves for all his magic items...his wand of lightning bolts survived.&nbsp;&nbsp; Once the badly wounded dragon took flight again, the rogue calmly walked over, picked up the wizard's wand of lightning bolts and felled the dragon with a 10d6 bold of electric doom....who outshone who?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Uller, post: 5899857, member: 413"] I think you misunderstand me. We're in agreement. The wizard can outshine the rogue (or the fighter, or the paladin, or the cleric except for healing), but in a very limited capacity. The rogue can make endless stealth (or Move Silently/Hide) checks. The Wizard can only cast invisibility so many times (if he even has it prepared). And it isn't just Rogues...what about Fighters. The fighter is supposed to be the one that consistently deals AND absorbs the most damage...then along comes the wizard with Stone Skill, Resist Elements, Displacement, Haste, Mirror Image and lays down some Evard's Black Tentacles to make the fighter look feeble. But again...he can only do this a limited number of times. In a 2e game a long time ago I was DMing, the party was being attacked by a Green Dragon...the only one who could really hurt it was the wizard. So the dragon breathed on him, then landed on him...squish. I made saves for all his magic items...his wand of lightning bolts survived. Once the badly wounded dragon took flight again, the rogue calmly walked over, picked up the wizard's wand of lightning bolts and felled the dragon with a 10d6 bold of electric doom....who outshone who? [/QUOTE]

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